Musicians = Street Performers?

[GianDeau]

(First a disclaimer: I am not passing a judgement or stating an opinion; I'm simply trying to stir up conversation)

Do variety-type street performers consider musicians street performers or are musicians just people performing on the street? Do you have to have a "show" (crowd gather, beginning, middle, end, with patter and a hat line)to qualify as a street performer?

What distinguishers a street performer from anyone else displaying a skill in public for money? Is there a distinction?

~Stephon

[BFlat]

Well, I'm a musician and I play on the streets, and playing music is performance so in other words, I perform on the streets, therefore I'm a street performer. No?

But I see what you mean. Street musicians like me, don't have an act together, we don't do tricks, don't say jokes and we don't gather a large crowd around us like the variety performers do.

I'm from Montreal and over here, performers do make the difference between a street performer (the variety kind) and a street musician. The city of Montreal issues "Street musician" permits to anyone who plays an instrument and "Street performer" permit to all the non-musicians performers. Both permits cost the same and we're basically allowed to perform at the same places. Except that the musicians dispose of a little more freedom than the other performers since the musicians are allowed to perform just about anywhere all over the city, downtown on the narrow sidewalks for instance. The variety performer need more room for their act, so they are forbidden to go downtown.

So this does that there is some kind of war going on between street performers and the street musicians. Sometimes when a musician shows-up on a pitch for other street performers (which by the way we are allowed to go at), sometimes the performers have this way of making the musician feel unwelcome. I totally understand that. But I still gotta play, cause I didn't buy my permit for nothing.

And then, this is where it gets interesting; we got lots of 'hybrid' performers in Montreal. I call them hybrids cause they are variety performers AND musician at the same time. They have a show,they tell jokes, hat lines and all.
This began a few years ago when the local variety performers began to realize that if they were a 'musician' that they could perform at many more place than non-musicians.

And this is were it begins to be complicated. It's not because you can scratch the strings on a guitar that it automatically makes you a musician... It's funny how them 'hybrids' don't play a difficult instrument like trumpet or saxophone for instance. Cause it takes special skills and years of practicing in order to get decent results playing such instruments. So this has created another kind of war. The street musicians are pissed at them hybrids for unfairly taking their spots.

Personally, I don't care, I think that it's good to have diversity. However, I understand that the city does make the difference between variety performers and musicians for security reasons. The sidewalks in Montreal can really be narrow at some places. Places where there is just not enough room for a performer, his case and a crowd around him.

Now the street musicians have lost a couple of pitches because of that. For instance, two years ago I went to play at one of those places and I got arrested because apparently I was not allowed to play there anymore. I didn't know, so the cops gave me a chance. When I asked the cops why I was no longer allowed there, they said it was because of that street musician who was occupying the whole sidewalk. I knew who they were talking about... but wait. He's not a street musician! he's a hybrid. But in my book, he's a performer. I found-out later that this performer in question has managed to get a street musician permit from the city.
Well, I usually don't mind hybrids but that time, I was really pissed off.

Okay, I understand, they wanna get more spots. But if it turns out that they make us loose our spots, then nobody's gonna have spots anymore.

So yeah, I think that there is a difference between a variety performer and a musician. And I'm glad that this distinction has been made in Montreal. But again, WHERE should the line be drawn? Where does it start to be considerated a street performer, and where does it end? At what point are you no longer a performer but a musician instead and vice-versa?
This kind of issue could create quite a debate.

[This message has been edited by BFlat (edited 08-07-2001).]

[mnozzolio]

I'm a musician and I consider myself a street performer. At the same time, I have the utmost respect for those who have honed their performing skills; are able to attract a crowd, keep it interested and entertained and then make a pitch for their hat.

I don't think one is better than the other -- only different. I sense that this forum is predominatly non-musicians, for want of a better term.

[Dead Wood Records]

Dear Stephon

I read your article with great interest because I I feel sure that in fact there is absolutely no difference whatsoever
I would go so far to say that any-one who works on the street ENTERTAINING THE PUBLIC is a
street performer. What is interesting is that I feel the only things that separate and artist from another is there very ability
using no props, props or musical instruments.

I personally do different shows, and sometimes when I am doing the ventriloquist show, I play music " Recorded " and sing songs
and make comedy up as I go along, These shows are usually performed where usually no other street performers can work! Thus
I don't que anymore no do I have all this shit with pitch politics so once you have learnt this one basic rule you will realize that it's
definitely useful to have music as a way to get in anywhere because it just goes around not getting noticed as it has always been the
case for years.

With music a one man act can clog up the street I have seen this happen on many occasions and it's usually the guys who can talk, sing,
play and really giving the public a great time. You couldn't just term these guys as just musicians because they were go about things in
other ways and those who have tried this approach have always done really well no matter where they have played.

I've seen musicians doing comedy and talking Pickles Paul (Sydney Australia with his Cockatoo for instance! and he could be termed as a street performer
or a musician he draws large crowds and really is multi talented and there isn't anything stopping you from doing these things either! So if you have learnt
disadvantages by being a musician why not use the street performers method and then you can do either and wind up probably working places that no
other people have ever dreamt of working before.

I really don't think there is an issue here because I personally belive that every performer no matter what he or she does owns his own rightfull
place as street performer or street musician no matter what methods you employ to earn a crust or whatever you think you're worth.

In the pitch thing I might as well say that if you have found yourself a big pitch where there are shit loads
of people walking by then let me know about it! I will definitely turn up there and play both the shows I do
circle show or Ventriloquist music show and at least If I did have the talent to play an instrument and intermingle it
with my other shows then they should have designed a new name by now for it?

Busking
Street Artist
Street Performer
Street Theatre
Street Animation (Plus much, Much more)

Then there is

Busker? (Musician or Entertainer?) I reckon the word busker was started by the musicians in anycase????
Thus the street performers glorified it to make themselves look more up to date or classy.

It's time for a new name for Musically orientated street theatre Perhaps " Orientated Musical Theatre " O.M.T for short

Doesn't matter who does what really does it? I can tell you are a sensible person and have already worked out the pro and cons
overall and if you take advantage of what you already seem to know then it'll all work out rosy in the end.

Trevor Rooney




------------------
Trevor Rooney

[Carla McEwen]

The Joybuzzard here!! If you are outside performing on the street in any capacity you are a street performer by definition.

[jester]

I agree that street musicians are street performers. But with one notable exception:

People who play the descant recorder. It is a vile and horrible instrument designed by a brilliant sadist to get his revenge on parent kind. Any parent who allows their kid to play the recorder on the street (even if the kid has grown up) is a menace.

[Jimbo]

This has been an ongoing debate for such a long time, however it is nice to see that some one on P.net is taking an interest in the musical side of the street. I'm not a musician by any extent of the means, i sing a little but god forbid i ever gain the patience or disiplin to learn how to play any instrument. However, just because i don't play anything does not mean I don't know the hard work and dedication it takes to learn. A musician puts in about the same amount of time and energy, as any good juggler. Depending on the instrument, probably more time. Musicians have just as much right to be on the street as any of us, but what makes the differance between a great street performer and a hack street performer is the ability to write your own stuff. Now I once had the reputation of ripping off material, but i was young, just starting out and had no idea what the hell i had got myself into. But now I have written an entirly original show, and I'm starting to gain the respect of other street performers for it. The same goes for music, I will more respect a musician who writes their own songs, than just learning the usual "Thousand Miles" by the Proclaimers.

But in the end musicians put in thier fair share of work and practice which in turn deserves our respect and appreciation.

[newyorkstreetdean]

Our show is more of a variety show than a musical show. But at first description (bucket drummers) people are often inclined to consider us a musical act as opposed to "variety". This is a problem for us because the expectations and our limitations really tend to get in the way. For instance, in many cases "street muscians" can perform for hours non-stop. This, I imagine is how they make money. They may not draw huge crowds, but alot of people pass them in 2 hours. For us, we can perform for maybe 45 minutes before we would die of dehydration, after that we need a decent break and lots of water. When people think that we are "street muscians" they will give us (in a festival) a smaller pitch but longer and/or more time slots. When I tell them we can't do the longer show they say that it is ok be we still get the same small pitch. We don't always gather huge croweds but we do our best. This will become a problem. At one of this past summers festivals, we were faced with this situation. One of the main walkways was becoming very cramped because of our show. The fest. producers noticed the problem and put us on a rotating schedule at rotating pitches like the other performers. The rest of the festival was awesome! This translates to the street as well. If the one man band shows up to the best pitch in town and decides he is going to perform for 5 hours to passers-by, then where are left the people who gladly rotate 30 min. to an hour. Certainly street muscians are performers, but I think there need to be some kind of distinguation (sp?).

[Dan The One Man Band]

I think the one-man band would also die of exhaustion and dehydration if he played for five hours to passers-by! When the band was young and starting out, we'd put on "Springsteenesque" marathon performances. Now we are older, a nice "cleaner" 45 minute show is more the pace. It's "satisfying", and we can still do other things after the show besides sleep.
Music versus non-music is irrelavent. I think the argument is basically about passer-by acts versus focused circle shows. The good festivals and cities recognize the difference.

cheers

Dan
Dtomb's old website soon to be replaced (http://www.dantheonemanband.com)

[Stretch]

[quote]
Music versus non-music is irrelavent. I think the argument is basically about passer-by acts versus focused circle shows. The good festivals and cities recognize the difference.
<hr></blockquote>

And then there is strolling entertainment. At a festival I cover quite a large area, either on stilts, or with one of our 18 foot tall giant puppets. Passing the hat doesn't work, I'm usually so into the moment that I forget to ask for $! So for now, I am a hired act, someday I'll be a busker, but not yet. The act is fairly spontanious, improv, feeding off the audience. The more diverse the audience, the easier and more fun for me. Your dog, plate of food, hat, haircut, ears, kid, baby stroller, purse; these are all props for me! However, as I gain more experience, I can see a circle show developing, just not yet. Dean, look for me in the Stock Show Parade next Tuesday, in Denver.

[Lee Nelson]

Hey there, I think the right call is not music and variety but how you go about occupying the pitch. A pitch is a place we all go and share using a draw. How you go about using it is your business, as long as you make the draw. I personally hate to see a show not using the pitch in its peak time to its potential but would very rarely say anything about this to the act except to offer advice on how to use it better.
Music is entertainment. Variety is entertainment. Walkby and circle are different genres and should never share a pitch.
These are the words of Derek but not Daisy

much love
Lee

[jugglermatt1]

Circle shows and musical performances compliment each other very well , its very rare to see competition over pitches , as normally were all looking for different things .Yes , If a group of mariachi Mexicans turn up , steal the big pitch for five hours (or live on it for 3 days ), then its up to them , theyre a big group after all with lots of big scary looking mouths to feed . And I would only want the pitch for 15 mins anyway . Im always happy to see musicians playing when I visit new towns , as I know that Ill be able to play also .
The word busker , may in my opinion come from the Spanish term "buscando la vida "or, looking for life.

[GlassHarper]

Good thread! When I started playing music on the streets with my glass harmonica I was barely able to keep body and soul together. I lived in a tent. I drove an Aerostar with a quarter of a million miles on it!

Then I started watching the circle shows critically -- they must be doing something I wasn't. Clearly it was the structure of the show. Slowly my act evolved into what I call a mini-circle show.

I can play continuously while people pass by, assiduously ignoring me. Then ONE person will stop, fascinated by the strange instrument I play. That person, then, becomes a seed and all of a sudden other people stop (usually at a distance). I get the lurkers to move up close. The enthusiasm of the growing crowd feeds upon itself. By then, I've launched into my show, talking about the history and physics of glass music while simulteneously playing jazz, classical and pop selections. I get audience participation, get a few chuckles and/or guffaws, make eye contact with each person, share some "secrets" of making glass music, intersperse a few "preliminary closing" lines (reminding folks that the hat line is coming), and end with a strong hat line. Depending on the audience it is a five or ten minute show.

When I finally saw Cellini's video tape on audience building and control I realized most of what he talks about were lessons I had to learn the hard way -- would that I had found the tape much earlier in my career! Although, now that I think of it, perhaps I wouldn't have understood what he was talking about until I was actually out there doing it!

Musician? Variety act? Musical street theater? It's all good!

[Debbie]

Well I would call musical performers buskers as well. Isn't that where the phrase was coined up from? My group does acapella and we busk on the streets. It's a lot different from other types of street performers though since we don't draw a permanent crowd who linger around for the whole part of the show. But we do have people who come in and listen to a song or two. It's gratifying, really!

The streets tend to face a problem for bad acoustics especially for singing, so that's a certain limitation we face. But the spontaneity is extremely fun. smile.gif

[Dead Wood Records]

Hi There

Seems I'm into music big time I have been reading this topic wwith interest and in my eyes even the public are musical and noisy on the streets in DB levels.

But when it comes to the difference between the musicians and the street performers there aint none in my eyes, as I am both I live on both sides of the fence.

Check out my music link you'll freak out.

Usually when I go onto the street or when I used to do it alot ( I dont these days ) I treated the street the same despite whether I did the music or the circle show.

The main difference here is that it's both the street performers and the musicians faults that there is such an issue.

We all know that musicians can play in places where you cant do the big shows, but it seems that the musicians have always been pushed in the corner some where by the bigger acts. This I have seen time and time again.

In the days when Amsterdam was busy with performers and tourists how-ever I remember the Spice boys shared the main pitch with the three flamenco players. They took the same pitch time at peak depending on the draw.

In places I have seen guitarists edged out of the pithes by street performers, How do they know what the guy might have done? Did he have the right to take the pitch if he were on time for the draw.

Off to the terraces for you my lad! Get in the que! But not quite said that way.

This is just one of my thoughs, fair is fair I reckon!

Better I could speak personally thats much better than writing it, I had any of you face face I could sell the hind leg of a knackered old donkey to you.

Trevor Rooney

http://www.lifepositive.com/spirit/masters/sri-aurobindo/auroville.asp

[ 01-17-2004: Message edited by: Dead Woods Music Agency ]</p>

[harmonicakev]

jester:
"I agree that street musicians are street performers. But with one notable exception:
People who play the descant recorder. It is a vile and horrible instrument designed by a brilliant sadist to get his revenge on parent kind. Any parent who allows their kid to play the recorder on the street (even if the kid has grown up) is a menace."

jester, are you talking about a recorder? There was a guy in Boston in the early eighties who could play 2 recorders at the same time. He used to do quite well for himself, busking at Government Center, underneath an overhang for good acoustics. At some point the authorities started kicking us out of the Government Center area, and they even posted signs forbidding street musicians. You can see a picture of one of theses signs at Stephen Baird's web site, Community Arts; it's on the links page.

[Butterfly Man]

A descant recorder would be a welcome relief after listening to Charlie The Saw Player for 10 hours straight ...

[jester]

They only banned you because of the bloody recorder player.