did you know?

[AJJames]

I saw this documentary last night called "unreported world", and thought some of you might want to hear what it had to say,
in everybody's mobile phone is a radio-active mineral called "cotan"( not sure if that's how it's spelt)
this mineral is very rare and mining exists only in the congo, certain areas in the congo especially around the cotan mines are controlled by war-lords who control the mining by military force.
That's the bare bones of it , the grusome details are left to the imagination, due to the lack of press coverage on the situation.
What it means is, you get to look cool and call your girl-friend on the pitch, meanwhile children in the congo are working in radio-active mines for scraps of food, babys are being born with malformities.
There's no reason why we shouldn't embrace technology but we should be prepared to pay a higher price to ensure that mining is safe and working standards are fair. Companies like Ericson should be accountable regarding how they aquire there product components.

[Peter Voice]

In Feb. 2000 the United Nations proposed to set up a commitee to attempt to differentiate between acts of "Terrorism" and genuine acts of "Freedom Fighting" (Inn. 4022. 2.00) It was an attempt to find the legal language to define both terms. It was not in the commitee's brief to tackle any specific conflicts but to try and set a legal standard that would differentiate between " legitimate acts of rebellion or war" and outright crime.
The only two members to vote against this innitiative were Israel and the US (even Russia, France, China and Sth Africa voted fror it), and, of course, the US exercised it's powers of veto and the bill was quashed.
Why, you might ask? Because 27 foreign incursions by US forces since 1990 would be declared illegal and a staggering 314 by Israeli forces. The commitee might have recognised the rights of the Palestinians to protect their homes or Iraqis to go about their business or raise their children in peace. It is obvious to the rest of the world that it is beyond US understanding that many people have genuine grievences against it's policies and actions.
Will US forces bomb Boston, known to all as the financiers of the IRA, will the US bomb Oklahoma because of the support offered to McViegh? Of course not, but Bin Laden like McViegh and other criminals should be bought to court, not be an excuse for the US to declare war on another country (the bombing started today and I wonder whether war has been properly declared or is this just another police action, a la Saigon and Vietnam). When 6000 people died at Bophal, America did not even think that Union Carbide (the US based company responsible) needed to face charges.
The US fight against terrorism would be farcical if it wasn't for the death toll it will engender. The moral stance and self-justification is sickening to some of us who live in the rest of the world. The earth is a big place and America is only part of it. The US attitude reminds me of a recalcitrant adolescent who says, "It's not me that is fucked up, it's everbody else."

[AJJames]

One Tomahawk cruise missile costs $600,000
The USA are currently deploying 50 per night.
Stealth bomber -$1.3 billion
B52 -$74 million

[Jim]

One Tomahawk cruise missile ... $600,000
Stealth bomber ... $1.3 billion
B52 ... $74 million

Bringing an end to a terrorist regime... priceless.

For everything else, there's raising taxes...

[Danny Hustle]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by AJJames:
One Tomahawk cruise missile costs $600,000
The USA are currently deploying 50 per night.
Stealth bomber -$1.3 billion
B52 -$74 million


They also provide good paying jobs for thousands of Americans.

[martin ewen]

"They also provide good paying jobs for thousands of Americans."

As do people who fly planes into buildings.
Not much of an argument.
I'm all up for a robust exchange of views between people who's opinions, quite realistically, will never change.
Its interesting (sort of) to watch the ego's clash like adolescent bucks in rutting season. (mine included-sorry everyone)
And for those directly affected its a free form of therapy as they vent and howl and snipe.
We have a broad range of political opinion but what's uniting us, whether we like it or not, is the sudden acceleration of change.
As street performers we are lucky in that our mindsets are adaptive almost by definition.
Hopefully we'll be the last people to lose our senses of humour.
(gathering in groups laughing amongst ourselves) thankfully no change there.



[This message has been edited by martin ewen (edited 10-11-2001).]

[Danny Hustle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by martin ewen:
"They also provide good paying jobs for thousands of Americans."

As do people who fly planes into buildings.
Not much of an argument.


Okay, back that one up. I want you to explain to me how flying planes into buildings has provided thousands of jobs and helped the American economy?

here's the short answer, you can't. You are just another bigoted, hate filled, American bashing, sad sack.

The only thing that makes guys like you feel good is to take advantage of the pain and suffering of others. I feel sorry for you, it must be quite a pathetic life.

[Chance]

Without putting words into Martin's mouth Danny, I think he was referring to (possibly among other things) the fact that there is massive clean-up and subsequent re-building taking place in an urban area previously occupied, hence, a creation of certain kinds of jobs, however unpleasant, after the disaster. Just like the firing (and destruction) of a missile makes almost certain that another will be made to replace it, guaranteeing another type of occupation, however unpleasant, which I believe was one of your points.

Tit for tat. You both score, but how does that help prevent this from happening again, I wonder?

[Dead Wood Records]

THis is the probl;em with all you guys, some-one starts a topic about something, Say Aj on this forum then it turns into costs of missiles and such shit.

At the end of the day what all this means is that the world is a pretty f....d up place
when performers using this site have nothing else to talk about apart from these issues that we can bombard ourselves with on BBC news or C.N.N.

NOne of us including the public have any say in the matter and no matter how you rant on about it all the world will still come to an end one day, and it will probably be faster that you think it might be.

Trevor Rooney

------------------
Trevor Rooney

[Vantage]

I think the main point Martin is making is a good one.
I do a good deal of Information Security work. I feel horrible about Sept. 11th but I also have to admit that I am getting work from it. People have become paranoid, possibly for good reason, and people are making money from it.
This shows how adaptable our culture is but also tells us that things that make us money aren't necessarily good things. People may get jobs and make money building bombs and bombers but that doesn't make the bombing right.
This is not to say that the bombing is wrong. I leave that to your personal opinion. Just that the jobs certainly don't come close to justifying it.

[Danny Hustle]

..

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-12-2001).]

[Danny Hustle]

I think that sound I hear is the nail being hit on the head. Great thoughts Trevor, thanks.

Regards,

Dan-

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Trevor Rooney:
THis is the probl;em with all you guys, some-one starts a topic about something, Say Aj on this forum then it turns into costs of missiles and such shit.

At the end of the day what all this means is that the world is a pretty f....d up place
when performers using this site have nothing else to talk about apart from these issues that we can bombard ourselves with on BBC news or C.N.N.

NOne of us including the public have any say in the matter and no matter how you rant on about it all the world will still come to an end one day, and it will probably be faster that you think it might be.

Trevor Rooney

[Dead Wood Records]

Thank you Danny for that one.

It will come one day, for sure!

Trevor Rooney

" Then there will be no electricity "

[AJJames]

this thread was supposed to be for information not opinion.
That aside , thanks to everyone for their contribution.

[Dead Wood Records]

It's OK AJ. if people stuck to your original topic it would have been ok, but they just have to bring on the American thing cos there seems to be nothing else to talk about these days.

The whole world is sinister, I just wonder how many of the guys who write on this site have ever really seen any of the real stuff that's out there.

Ah well every-one to their own, I suppose?

Trevor

PS: Everything that is bad is bad!

War is peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is strength

Hows that for three lines, I think that one puts the nail in the coffin.

[This message has been edited by Trevor Rooney (edited 10-13-2001).]

[Danny Hustle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trevor Rooney:
War is peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is strength



Just call me Winston..

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-15-2001).]

[jonnyflash]

Despite the terror...
Some Americans find strength in truth,and search for peace in a monopolar world.What ever happened to the idea of national sovereignty and the rest of the International war conventions?Why are we north americans rapidly losing our civil rights? Are they even rights when they can be taken away at whim by the powerful?
Anyways,bear in mind that I love the American people.I have no love for their non-representative,anti-democratic government(the % of eligible voters in US elections is known do dip below the 50% mark).
Can't understand why they hate us?
Some of them can't distinguish between people and government.When their relatives die due to imperial ambition some can't distinguish you and I from the tiny group of North American madmen that pressed the button,gave the order,pulled the trigger.
Sounds like some of us can't tell the difference either.
Here's 1% of why they hate us.
The US Army School of the Americas has been the center of a storm of controversy for nearly two decades. This training center for Latin American military has turned out more than 60,000 soldiers. Its graduates have been linked to nearly every major human rights violation that has occurred in Latin America since the school’s inception 50 years ago. As the public learned that SOA graduates were responsible for the assassination of President Salvadore Allende,President Jacobo Arbenz,Archbishop Romero,Che Guevara,the Jesuit massacre and countless other atrocities, a tremendous grassroots movement to close the school developed. In 1999, a budget amendment cutting funds to the school passed the House by 30 votes. It lost by a one-vote margin in a House-Senate conference committee. The Pentagon took this threat very seriously and in 2000 introduced a "reform" package changing the name of the school to the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Critics were not fooled by this PR campaign and the movement to close the School of Assassins continues. ...

read more talking points at soaw.org

INCREASE THE PEACE
UP WITH LOGIC AND MEMORY - DOWN WITH HISTORICAL AMNESIA
-jonny

[jonnyflash]

Please,anyone wanting to launch personal attacks on me for my views ---post that shit in the bla bla bla forum.
In the heat of the battle of ideas,no 1 should come to a gunfight with a rusty butterknife.

Peter has done his homework and I salute him..AJ is spreading info that's rarely allowed to be heard.Neither of them are acusing anyone of anything,just speaking about widely known public knolege that shouldn't be seditious in a free country.
I can't believe that the Americans who died in and around the towers would have wanted their deaths to be used as a pretext for the murder of innocent civilians,or as an excuse to destroy the civil,labour, and human rights that so many fought so hard and long to achieve.Here in Canada this tragedy has/is being used as a distraction/pretext to
a)reduce minimum wage by 25% for one sector of the workforce in my province(done)
b)end the socialized eye exams formerly available to all Canadians.(done)
c)introduce secret military courts sans jury or counsel,which are a staple of all the dictatorships in the world.(pending)
d)effectively end the right to strike by defining wildcat strikers as terrorists.(pending)
e)dismantle our socialized health care
system.(almost done)

What are they trying to pull on y'all to the south of us?


Debates are a great teacher
for all that seriously try to join in and share their views.
Down with war & racism. Up with justice and peace.Not the peace of death, but a peace of justice, mutual respect & development.We have to take care of our own before we can consider international adventures.I'm speaking of both our governments here.
-jonny

[Chance]

Don't know how to break this to you, Jonny, but you ARE in the "blah, blah, blah" section.

ps: who's attacking your views? I missed that part; all I see are two of your own posts on top of each other...

[jonnyflash]

Woops,missed my ( http://www.performers.net/ubb/smile.gifsign.
Should have read:
"Please,anyone wanting to launch personal attacks on me for my views ---post that shit in the bla bla bla forum:"
Thanks,chance

[Peter Voice]

In the same week that George Harrison died, an agreement was struck between the US govt. and the eight major American broadcasters (radio)not to play on air "My Sweet Lord" and John Lennon's "Imagine" (among 142 other songs).
It seems they've changed their mind about "My Sweet Lord" but "Imagine" still remains banned.
Imagine that.

[Chance]

Interesting factoid, Peter. Wouldn't happen to have any verifiable proof I suppose? Who, What, When, Where, Why: good journalistic guidelines anyone can use.

[Todd]

Sorry CHance I cant give you any of the 5 W's or the H on that little factoid, but I heard the same thing. Apparently "imagine" was a song that was 'requested' to not be broadcast after the bombing in Afginistan began. This I read about in the Dayton paper.


[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 12-09-2001).]

[Peter Voice]

"The Age" newspaper(Melb.) Dec.4 page 6. From an article by Peter Roebuck previously printed in the New York Times.
That's who, where and when. You can deduce how, but "why?" is the real mystery.
"What" is apparently the answer according to Rumplestiltskin.


[This message has been edited by Peter Voice (edited 12-09-2001).]

[Bri]

Why?

Listen to the song and think of the whole middle east situation. The song is comes off as anti-war and anti-religion which explains why it could be banned from radio airplay. Such artistic expression over radiowaves might stir up some "free thought" - god forbid.

[Scot Free]

John Denver's "leaving on a jet plane" was also sadly requested to stay off the airways.
-BOOHOO-

[Chance]

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/radio.htm

Sorry, Peter -- you are the weakest link. Goodbye!

[Peter Voice]

I read that, chance, 2 days ago. Personally I'd never heard of "Clear Radio" until then, I'll try to findout who owns it.
Here in Australia we have our own understanding of the media monsters we have inflicted on the world, you may have heard of Rupert Murdock and even Kerry Packer (Gazzo had a famous show using him in Surfer's) but we got a couple of other home grown beauties who prefer lower profiles. For a small country, we seem to have an astounding investment and influence on the world's media. Mark Day in China, Joseph Gudnick in Israel and New York, Fairfax in London.
I don't really put much sway in it but there is an old saying "You are what you read" (or in your case, perhaps, what you watch). What makes you think your website is a greater font of truth than any other source of information? The story about the influencing of playlists is circulating as fact in dozens of reputable publications owned by the same people who own the radio stations. Hello???

I personally prefer Micheal Moore' site and if you would like to read a good fun, anarchistic slant on the news from an Australian perspective try http://www.crikey.com.au (no, nothing to do with Rumple). I don't guarantee it's veracity any more than I would Murdock's, but it is certainly more interesting than game shows on TV.




[This message has been edited by Peter Voice (edited 12-10-2001).]

[Bri]

So after a rash of Halloween Shows, I was carving my pumpkin with a steak knife, slipped and stabbed my hand pretty badly. I got stitches, got the wound disinfected and life was good. Two weeks later I was in emergency getting the stitch removed. In the waiting room the TV was on, featuring CNN's non-stop coverage of the war. Here are all these sick people,waiting to get help, obviously suffering from some kind of ailment, and they're watching war coverage in the waiting room. I got up to switch the channel - the TV was stuck on CNN, with no way to change it. Go figure.

You are what you eat.

[Chance]

Peter: The same article has a direct link to Clear Radio, which owns not 6 US radio stations (as per your original factoid) but over 1,100! Reliability of "my" website notwithstanding, if this one fact does not put your original claim to some doubt in your mind I don't think anything will.

Your second letter spoke to the "why" (although in this case you were understandably unable to speak for the supposed actions of the US Govt)... but I ask you this: What was YOUR motive for posting the original message? One could very easily assume it was a kind of xenophobic States-bashing, and what help would that be?

Bri: Hope your hand is better. Next time go for the wall plug.

[scot]

27 monkeys were used in the shooting of the movie "Twelve monkeys". We need more topics

------------------
~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~X~~~X~~~~X~~~X~~~~X~~~X~~~X~

scot nery
mailto:scot@juggle.comscot@juggle.com</A>
deadjugglers.com (http://www.deadjugglers.com)

~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~~X~~~

[Peter Voice]

I don't know, chance, no matter how slowly I type for you, you still can't seem to read. I did not suggest that all US radio stations (I believe there are over 11,000) entered this agreement (nor did I use the number 6 anywhere) and the only broadcaster quoted by Roebuck was Rupert Murdock (Fox among others) because the article was published in Murdock papers. There was no retraction or denial.
I can understand why "Clear", or any other stations not party to this agreement, would wish to distance themselves from it.
As to my motives, xenophobia would be inaccurate and whilst I find individual Americans no different to any other people I've met, I will admit I dislike the collective US psyche. Call it anti-US if you wish, but you should note that I think exactly the same thing about Australians. Perhaps misanthropic is the word you are looking for.
Now read carefully, chance, I can't type any slower.


[This message has been edited by Peter Voice (edited 12-10-2001).]

[Chance]

When you're right, you're right! You didn't say 6, you said 8. And you didn't say stations, you said broadcasters. Which still changes none of the facts: that your original post was simply passing on a recent urban myth which has no basis in fact, eg, documented public statements from either the US Govt OR a single US radio station/broadcaster which supports the original false claim -- which no one is accusing you of starting, just passing on... Is it really so hard to just say, "Oh shit, why didn't I check into that myself before spouting off." Just like when you pass on things you hear from other buskers with an axe to grind before fact-checking. When you sling mud you get just as dirty as the one you are aiming at.

[Peter Voice]

I was merely relating a piece of information that I found astoundingly curious, nefarious or otherwise. I didn't realise that any-one would take it personally. Mudslinging misanthrope, I may be, but chance(sic), don't call me a careless writer.

[Chance]

Call it what you will, Peter, but AJ began this topic with a very general discussion on a rare mineral being mined for use in cell phones. Nothing -- nada, zip, zero, zilch --was in reference to the US. The very next post, yours, was typical US bashing.

Then, surprise, surprise, here you are scant weeks later and your FOLLOW UP post was just more of the same.

And when confronted, rather than research the facts yourself, or (God forbid) recant your original position, you make personal attacks against the person taking notice, who just happens to be from the US.

Imagine that.

I was in no way offended by the (supposed) content of the 'radio' message you posted. On the other hand, I found the anti-US slant quite offensive, hence my bothering to reply.

The only thing more stupid than xenophobia and prejudice (whatever the PC name may be) is --sorry but I can't think of anything more stupid.

As for mud slinging and careless writing, you might bother to remind yourself not to go around spreading the lies your friends tell you. Maybe this link will help refresh your memory: http://www.performers.net/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000137.html

[martin ewen]

Fuck- not the shoes

Short summery.
Brady, while never literally accusing and always alluding hounded chance for years about a pair of shoes he lost.
(their personalities clash-fancy that)
Chance would always rise to the bait and brady would slink off amused only to bring it up a month or so later with the usual predictible results.
Because of pressure and being ground down by complaints from on of the parties involved about besmirchment of character. Jim wrote to brady and pleaded with him not to continue as it was affecting him in that he had to deal with the results.
Brady persisted and Jim took his entry off the board and Brady hasn't been on here since.
Brady was really funny , I miss brady because he's a lunatic with a cunning intelligence and a good heart.
The shoe saga became history, it had run it's course.
Now we have a last word competition between another old ego rivalry about nothing more than a possible radio list (but subtextually so, so much more)
And the shoes are brought up again by the only person who ever asked that the subject be dropped.
Chance--no-one in the entire world ever thought that you had anything to do with the shoes, not brady, not anyone.
Please don't reply, just sigh and put it behind you.
You could tie me to a chair, force feed me over-boiled broad beans, sew my eyelids open and project little house on the prairie re-runs till my brain melted and you still couldn't bore me as much as the fucking shoes do.

[Peter Voice]

chance, if you go way back to feb. you may recall that Prof told you a drunken cockney magician had the shoes. Maybe she typed too fast for you.

[Chance]

Eyelids? Beans? Shoes? Oh brother! Don't suppose we could stay on topic just this one time? I am still waiting to hear if there actually is any documented proof behind the radio allegations, or whether, as I suspect, it was just another weak excuse to bash my country.

[This message has been edited by Chance (edited 12-11-2001).]

[Scot Free]

Alice In Chains, "Rooster"
Alice In Chains, "Sea of Sorrow"
Alice In Chains, "Down in a Hole"
Alice In Chains, "Them Bones"
Beastie Boys, "Sure Shot"
Beastie Boys, "Sabotage"
The Cult, "Fire Woman"
Everclear, "Santa Monica (Watch the World Die)"
Filter, Hey Man, "Nice Shot"
Foo Fighters, "Learn to Fly"
Savage Garden, "Crash and Burn"
Dave Matthews Band, "Crash Into Me"
Bangles, "Walk Like an Egyptian"
Pretenders, "My City Was Gone"
Alanis Morissette, "Ironic"
Barenaked Ladies, "Falling for the First Time"
Fuel, "Bad Day"
Korn, "Falling Away From Me"
Red Hot Chili Peppers, "Aeroplane"
Red Hot Chili Peppers, "Under the Bridge"
Smashing Pumpkins, "Bullet With Butterfly Wings"
Peter Gabriel, "When You're Falling"
System Of A Down, "Chop Suey!"
Lenny Kravitz, "Fly Away"
Tom Petty, "Free Fallin'"
Bruce Springsteen, "I'm On Fire"
Bruce Springsteen, "Goin' Down"
Phil Collins, "In the Air Tonight"
Limp Bizkit, "Break Stuff"
Green Day, "Brain Stew"
Temple Of The Dog, "Say Hello to Heaven"
Sugar Ray, "Fly"
Local H, "Bound for the Floor"
Slipknot, "Left Behind, Wait and Bleed"
Bush, "Speed Kills"
311, "Down"
Stone Temple Pilots, "Dead and Bloated"
Soundgarden, "Fell on Black Days"
Soundgarden, "Black Hole Sun"
Metallica, "Seek and Destroy"
Metallica, "Harvester of Sorrow"
Metallica, "Enter Sandman"
Metallica, "Fade to Black"
Nine Inch Nails, "Head Like a Hole"
Godsmack, "Bad Religion"
Tool, "Intolerance"
Soundgarden, "Blow Up the Outside World"
Nena, "99 Luft Balloons/99 Red Balloons"
AC/DC, "Shot Down in Flames"
AC/DC, "Shoot to Thrill"
AC/DC, "Dirty Deeds"
AC/DC, "Highway to Hell"
AC/DC, "Safe in New York City"
AC/DC, "TNT"
AC/DC, "Hell's Bells"
Black Sabbath, "War Pigs"
Black Sabbath, "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath"
Black Sabbath, "Suicide Solution"
Kansas, "Dust in the Wind"
Led Zeppelin, "Stairway to Heaven"
The Beatles, "A Day in the Life"
The Beatles, "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
The Beatles, "Ticket To Ride"
The Beatles, "Obla Di, Obla Da"
Bob Dylan/Guns N Roses, "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"
Arthur Brown, "Fire"
Blue Oyster Cult, "Burnin' For You"
Paul McCartney & Wings, "Live and Let Die"
Jimi Hendrix, "Hey Joe"
Jackson Browne, "Doctor My Eyes"
John Mellencamp, "Crumbling Down"
John Mellencamp, "Paper In Fire"
U2, "Sunday Bloody Sunday"
Boston, "Smokin"
Billy Joel, "Only the Good Die Young"
Dio, "Holy Diver"
Steve Miller, "Jet Airliner"
Van Halen, "Jump"
Queen, "Another One Bites the Dust"
Queen, "Killer Queen"
Pat Benatar, "Hit Me with Your Best Shot"
Pat Benatar, "Love is a Battlefield"
Oingo Boingo, "Dead Man's Party"
REM, "It's the End of the World as We Know It"
Talking Heads, "Burning Down the House"
Judas Priest, "Some Heads Are Gonna Roll"
Pink Floyd, "Run Like Hell"
Pink Floyd, "Mother"
John Parr, "St. Elmo's Fire"
Barry McGuire, "Eve of Destruction"
Steam, "Na Na Na Na Hey Hey"
Drifters, "On Broadway"
Shelly Fabares, "Johnny Angel"
Los Bravos, "Black is Black"
Peter & Gordon, "I Go To Pieces"
Peter & Gordon, "A World Without Love"
Elvis Presley, "(You're the) Devil in Disguise"
Zombies, "She's Not There"
Elton John, "Bennie & The Jets"
Elton John, "Daniel"
Elton John, "Rocket Man"
Jerry Lee Lewis, "Great Balls of Fire"
Santana, "Evil Ways"
Louis Armstrong, "What A Wonderful World"
Youngbloods, "Get Together"
Ad Libs, "The Boy from New York City"
Peter Paul & Mary, "Blowin' in the Wind"
Peter Paul & Mary, "Leavin' on a Jet Plane"
Rolling Stones, "Ruby Tuesday"
Simon & Garfunkel, "Bridge Over Troubled Water"
Happenings, "See You in Septemeber"
Carole King, "I Feel the Earth Move"
Zager & Evans, "In the Year 2525"
Norman Greenbaum, "Spirit in the Sky"
Brooklyn Bridge, "Worst That Could Happen"
Three Degrees, "When Will I See You Again"
Cat Stevens, "Peace Train"
Cat Stevens, "Morning Has Broken"
Jan & Dean, "Dead Man's Curve"
Martha & The Vandellas, "Nowhere to Run"
Martha & The Vandellas/Van Halen, "Dancing in the Streets"
Hollies, "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother"
Sam Cooke/Herman's Hermits, "Wonderful World"
Petula Clark, "A Sign of the Times"
Don Mclean, "American Pie"
J. Frank Wilson/Pearl Jam, "Last Kiss"
Buddy Holly & The Crickets, "That'll Be the Day"
John Lennon, "Imagine"
Bobby Darin, "Mack the Knife"
The Clash, "Rock the Casbah"
Surfaris, "Wipeout"
Blood Sweat & Tears, "And When I Die"
Dave Clark Five, "Bits and Pieces"
Tramps, "Disco Inferno"
Paper Lace, "The Night Chicago Died"
Frank Sinatra, "New York, New York"
Creedence Clearwater Revival, "Travelin' Band"
The Gap Band, "You Dropped a Bomb On Me"
Alien Ant Farm, "Smooth Criminal"
3 Doors Down, "Duck and Run"
The Doors, "The End"
Third Eye Blind, "Jumper"
Neil Diamond, "America"
Skeeter Davis, "End of the World"
Ricky Nelson, "Travelin' Man"
Chi-Lites, "Have You Seen Her"
Animals, "We Gotta Get Out of This Place"
Fontella Bass, "Rescue Me"
Mitch Ryder, "Devil with the Blue Dress"
James Taylor, "Fire and Rain"
Edwin Starr/Bruce Springsteen, "War"
Lynyrd Skynyrd, "Tuesday's Gone"
Drowning Pool, "Bodies"
Mudvayne, "Death Blooms"
Megadeth, "Dread and the Fugitive"
Megadeth, "Sweating Bullets"
Saliva, "Click Click Boom"
P.O.D., "Boom"

Here is the contentious list of 150 songs that Clear Channel (owner of 1170 radio stations in the U.S., 240 International plus affiliates)"requested" not be played by their stations in the wake of Sept.11th. Clear Channel feels that these songs are too "sensitive" and too inflammatory to expose the Public to.

It took me 30 seconds to find this list on the net, therefore I will not cite the source. I assume anyone reading this has access to a search engine and if there is still doubt check it out, there are tons of sites that will come up as a result for "radio no play list" search.

I don't consider posting such information (even if it is second or third hand) America bashing. The spirit of the original post seemed to me to be:
"wow, look what these corperate sickoos have done now- They banned the Beatles for singing a peace song during a war"

It does beg to question the dominant authoritarian ideology of the corerate eleite who run the U.S. and by default the rest of the world.
Who needs an excuse to bash them?


[This message has been edited by Scot Free (edited 12-11-2001).]

[Jim]

Well put, Scot. How would you like a moderator position?

[Jim]

Peter, Chance actually posted that link to snopes: http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/radio.htm
(They're actually quite reliable in the rumor-busting they do.) The songs weren't 'banned.' But Clear Channel DID distribute the list with the 'suggestion' to avoid playing the songs in an obviously sensitive time.

So there. End of argument.

The next person to mention tennis shoes loses their membership to performers.net.

[Jim]

Hey, speaking of snopes...

Here's and interesting and TRUE tidbit :

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/falwell.htm

[Peter Voice]

Thank you Scot, I'm glad some-one actually read my post as it was written. I never said the songs were banned, I merely pointed out that a tacit agreement had been made between some of the world's (not just America's) broadcasting moguls to remove them from US (and probably others) playlists. It seemed particularly poignant after George Harrisons death.
In Aust we have another particularly powerful but quiet media mogul (who owns considerable US broadcasting interests) called Ita Butrosse. Ita has a particularly strong lisp (which would be a problem for a less capable radio personality, but then Kerry Packer, who owns nearly as much of the world's printed media as Rupert Murdock, is dyslexic, so what can I say), referred to the agreement, on air (Melb 3LO, Am 770), as "the case of the mithing thongs" (absolutely true, but it is an antipodean joke that might get me banned from p.net if Jim gets it).
chance's problem is not so much what I wrote or even it's veracity, but simply that I wrote it. I do apologise to those that are subjected to our mutual antagonism but I do at least attempt to make it entertaining. I am looking forward to celebrating some of his good works after he decided to reinvent himself post-Sept. 11.
Strangely, I was under the impression this was the place for open and honest debate.
Jim, perhaps you should put some instructions in the "users guide" to tell us how to deregister ourselves, save youself the trouble.


[This message has been edited by Peter Voice (edited 12-12-2001).]

[Jim]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Peter Voice:
Thank you Scot, I'm glad some-one actually read my post as it was written. I never said the songs were banned,

Peter, I don't want to pull a 'Chance' here (Forgive me Chance) but you DID use the word 'banned' in your original post. You said "... but Imagine remains banned."


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Peter Voice:
I merely pointed out that a tacit agreement had been made between some of the world's (not just America's) broadcasting moguls to remove them from US (and probably others) playlists.

...And Chance pointed out that this simply wasn't true. No efforts were made to remove Imagine from any playlists. It may have been suggested to program directors that playing certain songs would upset people, but the songs weren't banned.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Peter Voice:
"the case of the mithing thongs" (absolutely true, but it is an antipodean joke that might get me banned from p.net if Jim gets it).

Thay 'thongs' all you want, but thay 'thneakers' and you'll thertainly get a bunth of people riled up...


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Peter Voice:
Strangely, I was under the impression this was the place for open and honest debate.

Duh?!? Peter, I was kidding about banning people because they mention Brady's sneakers. COME ON!

You're the last person I thought would get that upset about a joke. This IS a place for open and honest discussion. But HELLO??? (I'm asking everyone here) Why do people insist on being such jerks to each other? Why have there been less than a 10 posts outside the Blah Blah Blah forum in the last two weeks??? What is so fascinating about discussing peoples' sexuality for over 100 posts when we can't seem to break a dozen posts in the "Festival and Pitch Ethics" Forum in the past year??? Is this a Gay and Lesbian support group or a forum for the discussion and advancement of our respective performing careers?

This site is a place to discuss all types of topics, yes, but sometimes I wonder how serious people are about actually improving their careers and improving their performances. We each carry a wealth of experience and information in our heads... imagine how cool it would be if that knowledge were typed out in a searchable forum system? There are a few people here who consistently share positive useful information without hesitation. But I'll say it again... over 300 of the 430 'registered' members have NEVER posted to a single forum. And of the 50 regular posters, most have not posted outside of Blah Blah Blah.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Peter Voice:
Jim, perhaps you should put some instructions in the "users guide" to tell us how to deregister ourselves, save youself the trouble.


There is a difference between censoring and moderating. Yes, I've deleted people's posts in the past. (about 4 individual posts; not threads, not users... 4 posts in the last year) And yes, I've explained to those people exactly WHY I deleted their posts. When discussions get out of hand, begin to get repetitive or are simply off topic and inappropriate for a thread, I'll politely ask the person offline to restrain themselves and/or 'think' before posting again. If they continue to post pointless, antagonistic garbage, I will close the thread or ask them to stop publicly to give everyone a chance to cool down. I have NEVER banned anyone or removed ANYONE'S posting priveleges.

Having this forum system in place is a choice I made. Now I have to deal with it. It's on the WEB. Anyone in the world can join in a conversation or a rant or a flame. But if I just let it run amuck, it would serve no useful purpose for anybody. It's like a plant or a vine... sometimes a branch will get out of hand and it needs to be pruned... not removed; just cut back a bit so it stays healthy.

I'm not here to silence anybody, but I do feel it's my job to speak out when flames begin and the stupid, antagonistic blather begins to flow. I'm just trying to keep this ship sailing in a positive direction. For everyone's benefit.

Jim

P.S. Peter, you have the ability to edit your personal profile by clicking the "PROFILE" link at the top of any page. I will not de-register you... or anybody.

[Prof Willie B]

185 registered members have posted in topics outside Blah, Blah, Blah and, exactly, 50 different unregistered people posted in the "gigs" section, 38 of whom registered after their first post. There have been 3404 contributions to this site in a year.
Of 436 registered members 192 have registered within the last 100 days.
I personally think it would take a few weeks for even an experienced UBB user to get any sort of handle on this lot let alone some-one new to this technology and I'm only talking about the internet, not the egos, rivalry or the depth of good stuff that's to be found here.

Some-one else here went into a rave about how few people he thought were contributing to this site but the line of discussion was discontinued before we looked at the actual figures.
Many people will take time to get into this site and in some subject lines there are some pretty definitive writings that, until circumstances change, need little more discussion (many such writings perhaps should be moved/copied to the library which is sadly being neglected in favour of these boards). I'm still rather reluctant to register on any website until I understand it thoroughly so I assume there are lots of people reading who still haven't registered (I'd guess 3 to 1 but the cookie count doesn't help here because everybody moves too much and uses too many different machines)
Jim, you seem somehow disappointed but have not really subjectively analysed the content and quality of what happened since the old site fell down. Can you possibly guess at the number of people who have quietly and successfully pulled off some great shit behind the scenes but as a direct result of this site? Nick, Lynneski, Martin, any-one have anything to say on this point?

Btw. a "thong" in some parts of the world is an entirely different piece of apparel, it could only be described as footwear by a few unusually endowed men.

[Jim]

I understand what thongs are. Both kinds.

Great research Prof. Here are a few more numbers; my estimates were off.. it was two in the morning...

Registered users: 436
People who registered and have never posted once: 178
People who registered and posted 1 or fewer times: 267
People who registered and posted 2 or fewer times: 308

Posts in Blah Blah Blah: 1510 (that's just currently... 6 months ago I pruned off hundreds of old, unread posts)

Posts in all other forums combined: 2000

Yes, there have been some great posts in the past year, and I know I need to get them into the Library. It's on my list of things to do right after I upgrade the forum system, update the rest of the site, do the gigs I'm booked for, update my personal site, work on my act, pay off my house... I'm busy; sorry. I'll personally refund everyone's membership fees if the site isn't updated in the next 5 minutes.

My point is this: A lot of times, the atmosphere in these forums is less than inviting to the new visitor. I know I'd be intimidated to post here if I thought I'd be attacked or made fun of. I'm not saying we shouldn't kid around and have fun, but the flames, and antagonism and needling has to stop. Also, it doesn't look good for any of us when a new visitor comes in and the only active topics for a week are "Out yourself here" and jokes about Stan the sheep f***ing cowboy.

There is no censorship here. Yes, there is moderation, but I have never, ever silenced anyone's voice. Everyone has the ability to post whatever they want. But I will discourage people from flaming, 'last word' wars and personal attacks. I encourage these people to continue their arguments offline. It's amazing how fast flames die out when the involved parties are asked to email their messages directly to each other. The fact that the posts are public adds and egoistic element and people will continue to agure for the sake of agruing. Even if no one else cares about what's being argued. [Hey, Imagine is being played on the radio right now!]

I try to do my best to keep the discussion on these forums in the general categories of "Performing stuff" and "Stuff performers talk about." After all, that's what this site is supposed to be about.

Rememeber that there are far more people lurking here than posting or even registering. The people visiting performers.net include hundreds and perhaps thousands of potential clients. Despite all the useful information and POSITIVE dialogue, one joke about a sheep-f***ing cowboy can turn a lot of people off and that affects us all. ("Why would I want to hire someone like that?" "Are they going to act that way at my event?" "Street performers sure are unprofessional, have you seen their web site?") How do you want to be perceived to the general public? Would you tell a joke like that to an audience on the street? Would you get into a heated discussion with another performer and attack their intelligence in front of an crowd? How professional are you? Does it come across in your posts? I know it's easy to get carried away, but that's when the moderator is supposed to step in. I do my best and I think I'm VERY fair and reasonable.

Here's what I wrote for people to read on their way into the forums: "So good luck and have fun and please respect the work and maintenence that goes into this site. Use your judgement, don't FLAME, and by all means... be nice to each other."

I still mean it.

Jim

[martin ewen]

Did you know.
That if you're cooking anything liquid and oversalt it, peeling a potato and immersing it will soak up the excess.
I'm prepared to vigorously defend this statement

[Jenny]

Jim:

I want you to know I really appreciate this site. For me so far, it has been more of a creative outlet for verbal intercourse with kindred spirits than an exploration for the advancement of my career. It's winter and that's just the mode I'm in.

I have given thought to the professional risks I take by the racy (joking) things I write. I have decided that even though the site is public, anyone (ie; prospective client) who goes looking in the "unadulterated drivel" section is going to take it for what it is. Maybe they won't, but I'm willing to take that risk for the freedom of this sort of absurd, creative, carefree play with abandon.

So, thanks for creating the outlet, Jimmy Jim, my (big) brother!

Love,
Jenny

PS: Now, back to the drivel...

[scot]

I had no idea that Mark Farneth had a sister.

[Airborne Dan]

I would wager a guess that if any posts were to be censored it would be one of mine. To your credit Jim, you have held to your word and not deleted any content I have contributed. I would like everyone to know that it is not my intent to offend or antagonize anybody. I happen to be a person who embraces, respects and genuinely likes people. Regardless of race, religion, politics, sex, culture, education. I am also one of those p.neters who have posted entirely on the Blah Blah Blah topics. That is probably because I find them the most entertaining. Isn't that what they are supposed to be? I laugh out loud almost every time I read the "jokes" or "out yourself here" threads and have never been offended by anything. Am I the only one? or am I just a little thicker skinned (or possibly thicker headed) than everyone else?

All I know is that I write a tender love story about a man and his sheep, and this is deemed somehow offensive? Where a violent joke wherein the punch line involves me being murdered in cold blood is not. I think it is a product of our overly violent and sexually repressed culture.

I thought both jokes were funny and laughed when I read the murder story and when I wrote the love story. I even came back with two, count em, tag lines for Stan the sheep fucker. Do you want to know why I laughed? I'll tell you why, because it's comedy. They're not true stories, they are jokes. The joke I wrote was not meant to offend or insult the person I wrote it about, it was meant to make him and all of you laugh. Just as I'm sure the joke he wrote about me was meant to do.

Would I tell a joke like this in front of a crowd? Yes, this crowd. Would I tell it to a family audience or to my own children, of course not. Are festival organizers so stupid they can't tell inane banter from artistic endeavors? I don't think so.

Any way lighten up everyone, nobody is being censored (except Bobarino, thank God) and Peter Voice, please do not delete all your posts as I enjoy reading them so much.

[Jim]

Sorry to use you as an example, Dan. I guess the sheep joke somehow left an impression on me. Got me thinking, actually...

If Stan had a herd of sheep, wouldn't that make him a Sheepboy instead of a Cowboy?

For the record...
Bobarino wasn't censored. He crossed a line and I deleted one single offensive post of his (after three different warnings) and then he got all bent out of shape. He has, and has always had, the ability to come back and babble all he wants.... He was never shut off.

[Airborne Dan]

Did you know that thongs and other tight underwear can contribute to impotence in men? That's because they hold the testicles to close to the body and can cause the sperm to die.

[Thom]

This will make Jim happy:

I'm one of the "semi-posters". Mostly I lurk, I read and I laugh at the posts. Rarely I'll throw up a quick response to something I know something about. I don't know much, apparently.

So, I've posted a couple of things outside of "blah, blah..."

Read them and for God's sakes COMMENT on them.

If Jim gets really mad this may turn into an all human statue board.... and then where will we be?

Thom

www.thombritain.com (http://www.thombritain.com)

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

I've always help p.net as a rare space on the planet outside of a festival where we can be our inane, ridiculous selves.
(Speaking of, Jenny, I appreciate any creative intercourse you engage us in, and I guess verbal will do.) Hope it never gets reduced to posturing and behaving for the unseen corporate ear. My limericks would lose me all those birthday parties.
Bobarino was here the other night to see the webslinger Martin. His stand was very clear, and his distance from this site is self imposed, political, and without rancor. I see his side on that choice.
I don't envy you, Jim, being a leader among this batch. Love the results of your leadership. though. Thanks.

- tennis shoes... ahh.

[Jim]

Bobarino can do whatever he wants. If he chooses to be a martyr for censorship, so be it... but I know he's dying to post sheep f***ing cowboy jokes. The 'out yourself' thread is calling him.

Jim

[Prof Willie B]

Perhaps Brady should wear his underwear on his feet.

[Butterfly Man]

Brady wears a tutu for gawdsakes ... I may cross-dress occasionally, but hey, I don't wear a fuckin' tutu!

[nick nickolas]

We can take our TuTu's off Bobby....
We don't need a wig the price of a car......

[em]

And Bobby, just how sticky is it underneath?

[Lynneski]

Well, Prof, since you asked ...

I've been reading, and occasionally posting, to p.net since shortly before Jim ported it to this new format. I know many (I'd even go so far as to say "most") of the street fest producers in Nth America are at least semi-regular readers. Why they don't post - you'll have to ask them.

Before I added any of my pennies to a discussion, I made a point of writing to Jim to ask how he felt about a producer-type posting to a performer forum. He was amazingly welcoming (well, he's always that way - thanx Jim), and encouraged myself and others to jump in so that a wide spectrum of voices were heard.

But I still feel that this is "your" playground, and I'm mostly here under sufferance. I tried early last year to start some discussions about preferred methods of funding travel, accoms and the like, but the underwhelming response I got led me to believe that perhaps no one felt comfortable stating a position, for fear it would alienate them from a producer who worked under a different model. Or maybe asking anything to do with money was simply in bad taste.

Have I pulled off any great shit, as a result of being a member here? Not really, except to expand my knowledge of how large and diverse is our community. (Oh, and once I think I really pissed off Raoul - oops!)

Would I book, or not book, any artist as a result of something I read on p.net? Not in a million years. There's too many other elements to consider that have far greater weight.

Would producers of other events who do drive-by "variety artist needed" posts be off-put by what they read here? Maybe. But it ought to be each member's call whether that's important to them or not.

I'll admit to a fondness for limericks (I'm looking for a treatment centre), but I try to stay out of the blah blah otherwise. That's supposed to be the place where you can let it all hang out. Jim, is it possible to have a public/private breakdown so that blah blah is passworded? I suspect that would be a hugely onerous task to create/oversee, but it might keep the animal husbandry threads out of drive-by view.

For myself, it's a fine line to walk in just what I think is appropriate to post. I've stepped on Martin's toes a couple of times (my apologies, again) and maybe Nick's too, in what I thought was a playful taking-the-piss fashion that didn't translate well to the bare written word. And there are hundreds of participants here with whom I have not yet worked, so who knows how my witless attempts at teasing were taken? Robert's tweaked my nose a couple of times but, one, I think that's one of his chief objectives in posting and two, we both know I would just end up a messy puddle of random vowels if ever I tried to respond to his challenge (I'm bowing now, Robert). So mostly, I've learned to exercise a little caution.

I completely second Jim's hearty call for more work-related discussions. Maybe it will pull some others of my ilk out of hiding? For Nth Americans it's the off-season, and all-too-soon the end of eating well from corporate holiday gigs as Karl pointed out. I have a bit more time on my hands now than in the high season - time for research and some tweaking of plans. Maybe I'll ask the first question ...

Lynne

[Thom]

Lynne,

If you still need information, I'd be happy to field some questions about preferred travel, etc.... I think others would too. I could be wrong, though.

I think I missed the last post.

Always happy to bridge a gap between producers and performers!

Thom

www.thombritain.com (http://www.thombritain.com)

[Jenny]

You can sing Nick Nickolas' latest limerick to the tune of "Yankee Doodle"!

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

Further confirming my suspicion that Nick is actually Christ.

[firegirl]

at the bottom of this page bri posted something about being in an emergency room & all they could see was war coverage?

this made me think of last tuseday when i was flying home for the holidays & the tv in the airport bar in nola was stuck on cnn - which was covering the 'three month anniversary of 9/11...'

yeah ~ just what i want to see as i'm about to board a 747. exploding airplanes.

(i've laughed more reading this thread in the past hour than i have in two days... thanks.)

~firegirl

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

Yesterday, I was going into a store, and there was a salvation army guy ringing his tinkly little bell with the red money pot on a steel tripod.
Uncharitably, I thought "Bell ringing pain in my ass".
At that instant, the bell flew from his hand and crashed on the sidewalk. Clang.
For a second, I felt powerful.

[danielc]

That last post reminds me.

On Tuesday, I was singing at a concert. A friend of mine was dressed rather.. Scantily. I said jokingly:
"Wouldn't it suck if your boob fell out of that shirt while we were singing?"

At that moment, she gave me a frantic look and said "My bra just decided to undo itself!" as she held her chest and ran to the bathroom.

For a second, I felt powerful, and also I felt as if I'd brought new meaning to the term "Undressing her with my mind."