When the check bounces

[jared]

I worked a new years show where the bastard that ran it screwed everyone. All the performers, waiters, staff, etc.. It was in WV (I live in NY) they flew me out there and put me up, but the checks all bounced.
I don't have a contract, which is my own stupidity. Though I know that some of the performers did. And I know the person who initially contacted me (who also wasn't paid).
So my question is, what can be done in a situation like this?

[Doctor Eric]

Do you own a claw hammer?

[Doctor Eric]

Okay, in seriousness, the check he wrote, if you still have it, is proof that you had a verbal contract, the fact that he wrote it shows that he knows he owed you that much money. So legally, you have a leg to stand on, BUT, you'd much rather not do it in court, it'll take way too long. So the best thing to do is to hound the guy, call him every day for the next week or so, let him know you're taking legal action, and that you're advising the REST of the performers to do so as well. Threaten the best you can, and if that doesn't work for a week or so, then take him to small claims. You'll win.

[Doctor Eric]

And in small claims, you can sue for a little more than what he wrote the check for, for your time. Just don't get greedy, another couple hun maybe but not too much. If you sue for too much extra, the judge will just think you're a greedy prick, but a little extra for your time, and for check bounce fees is totally reasonable.

[martin ewen]

Step one; name and shame.
Won't impact your chances of getting any money back and might help someone else not get ripped off. In turn someone may remember you were the guy who set them straight and saved them potential grief and that in turn ever so slightly effects the regard in which you are held by the community you are associated with and that in turn Kevin Bacon.

[martin ewen]

step 2
Go up the chain.
Presumably you know who the client was, it could go, promoter, venue, client or simply promoter, client,
Send a VERY polite letter to the venue people, if it was held in a commercial venue and or the client if it was not. [this is business bro] and outline how you would like to thank them for the venue/work but have a question regarding the chain of distribution of the budget accociated with the event. Apologise for the inconvenience and explain you are doing your own para-legal work before retaining council to try and keep your own legal costs to a minimum.
Ask them specifically whether their commercial relationship with 'X' could in any way relate to the fact that the majority of those subcontracted for the event were not paid.
Then yours sincerely yadda yadda.
What you are doing here is firstly letting them know that the matter is ongoing, secondly if it is indeed the case that he's just taken the budget and kept it for himself giving them the opportunity to stitch the guy up from the opposite end, their end and thirdly giving yourself further data that could be used later to pin the guy if he tries wiggling and trying to use extenuating circumstances to justify his theft.
Cos it looks like straight up fraud and if there's enough of you not paid you should get a lawyer between you and not take him to small claims but sue. He'll settle, you'll squeeze a bit and you could actually, if you identify him alone as the fraudster and set it all up with the right kind of mongrel lawyer, hurt him rather than just get your fee. With the lawyer involved you probably won't get that much more than the fee but you'll get the satisfaction of fucking with someone who tried to fuck with you.
Alternatively you could all get together and each chip something in and email me and for a small fee I'll take him out to some abandoned cabin in the woods and torture him.
That won't gain you anything but I'll feel better.

[Steven Ragatz]

For a single gig, suck it up to experience and move on. Continue to try to contact the guy, but at some point it is more damaging to your own health and frustration than worth the money for one show.

Threaten them, but only with threats that you're willing to back up. If you're ready to get a lawyer involved, then go there, otherwise I wouldn't bother to bluff, especially since it sounds like nobody got paid.

Certainly don't work for them again. Feel free to share the information to other performers as well. You might not choose to slag the client online, simply because there can be ramifications, and it looks unprofessional, but all sorts of deal details get shared backstage. Networking is powerful stuff.

Keep your spirits up because there may be a silver lining! Chances are that this gig was not a very big one, but I imagine the experience will temper your contract policy. That change in attitude about your relationship with a client may pay off big time for a larger gig in the future. Learning experiences should not be taken for granted, even ones that are unpleasant. I swear I learn more from the bad ones than the good ones anyway.

On the other hand, it may just suck. Shit happens.

Steven Ragatz

[jared]

Thanks for all the great advice. I have been hounding him and every contact I have in relation to the gig since the event. Every now and then someone will get back to me, say "you'll get paid" and then vanish for another week. They actually just replied yesturday saying they would pay me promptly at 9am this morning... and guess what happened. Maybe they're just fucking with me.
I do have the check and would love to take him to small claims, but he is in a different state.. and I would need to be in his county, right? If there is anyway around it, I'd do it. It was a $650 gig, I can move on. But I'm just pissed and want to make him pay.
He is the owner of the venue, and he didnt pay the person he hired to hire me. So I can't really attack at the rest of the chain.
I may just have to move on with a lesson learned, continue to hound him, if anything just to annoy him and punch him in the face if I ever make my way back his way. :)

[martin ewen]

you got some sort of ethic consideration about sharing his name? Doing so would help innoculate others from being infected by him is all.

[Isabella]

You can also clearly and non-aggressively write out your side of the story, and submit it to the local Better Business Bureau and any professional associations the guy might be a member of or associated with.

[Doctor Eric]

Also, for a small fee, you can hire me to show up with my claw hammer.

[nick nickolas]

and for a few dollars more I'll come along with a banjo and squeezebox.

[Mr.Taxi Trix]

You can take him to small claims, there's a loophole I've used, which might work for you. When filing, if they see the address, and ask about the location, you tell the clerk the contract was made and agreed to over the phone, from your home or office there. This lets the claim go through, and if the producer wants to argue for a change in venue, they still have to show up. If they fail to appear, you can still win a judgement.

Then the work begins.

You have to wait 90 days for payment that will fail to come, then you have to contact the police in this persons area, then show them your settlement and their failure to pay, then, ready? They get ARRESTED! They must then pay you, or you will press charges.

Suddenly, cash arrives.

Best of luck.

[Lee Nelson]

I have been through this process in another country. It was by far one of the most satisfying things i have ever done. Getting someone who thought they were above the law arrested.
Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt want to spend my life doing this but it was certainly worth the effort. And that money sure was sweet when I finally recieved it. I still get a big smile on my face everytime I think about the police arriving at his house.......

[jared]

Ethics? Guy's name is Greg Campbell. The event was at his restaurant "jeckyl and Hyde"
I will try that loophole with the small claims. Thanks for the tip! From what i've heard the guy has already been arrested more than once from fucking all his other employees. I hope he isn't getting too comfortable there.

[Doctor Eric]

I definitely suggest you go after him. It's good to set a precedent for yourself, and not take shit lying down.

[jester]

If you are telling the truth you have nothing to fear from naming and shaming. Just name them, but remember to post when they do actually pay and do so with good grace.

Last year I had a problem with an agency claiming that a juggler I worked with was not very good and that their client was unhappy.

I was at a party where the organisers were inconsiderate to guests who arrived 15 minutes early, where the venue was cold and not sufficiently heated and where the band were cheap and the singers were not good.

There were so many possible avenues of complaint but the organiser chose to blame the young juggler who had dropped the odd item in the cold. The juggler had been asked to stand outside in the cold February air for 30 minutes longer than originally agreed and there was no warm room for her to go in to to warm up afterwards.

The guests were indifferent to the juggler anyway as I was stealing the show with my more spectacular circus props. Being larger and better insulated and moving around much more I was warm enough.

So the agency rang demanding a substantial discount. I told them my side of the story and the agency told me that they had already agreed to the discount. I told the agency that this was now their problem and I expected my juggler to be paid in full.

Agency came back re-ieterating the organisers complaint... So I rang the event company, spoke to the person on the ground to discover that none of the guests or staff had a complaint.

So I rang the person who had made the complaint and she was hostile and angry.. and threatened to black list me... and I got paid in full that day. Ta Dah!. Simple words: "I am telling you my side of the story, if you would like me to put that in writing and address it to your client, the venue, the agent and your partners at work, then continue to shout."

However I was paid so I shall not mention their name. I still think they are TWATS and even in these hard times I have twice refused to work for them.

[Doctor Eric]

He already named the guy in the post directly above yours, Jester. I thought you were turning over a new leaf?

[jester]

I'm sorry. I promised not to be deliberately annoying. I never said I was cured of stupidity!

[martin ewen]

Brilliant, humility is all we ask for, even if it's faked. it's a same page kinda deal

[jester]

I personally would take the cheque over humility, however, when a non payer shows humility I do tend to be far more patient with them.

See how reformed I am, the thread was turning out to be about MEEEeee again and I managed to get it back on topic.

[gav]

Actually you almost managed, but with your last sentance, you made it about your reformation.

[Doctor Eric]

I say we all chip in and buy Jester some self awareness, it'll be fun to watch it all hit at once, and see his face melt like the nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[nicklikesfire]

Ethics? Guy's name is Greg Campbell. The event was at his restaurant "jeckyl and Hyde"
I will try that loophole with the small claims. Thanks for the tip! From what i've heard the guy has already been arrested more than once from fucking all his other employees. I hope he isn't getting too comfortable there.

I know this is an old thread, but I just happened to see it and wanted to get some more information out there and online.

Gregory Campbell is a professional con artist with mafia connections. He throws lavish parties, charges people to attend, pays for everything with fake checks, and then splits with the cash.

He has been arrested multiple times and it is a total failure of the American justice system that this is still happening (as of early 2010 anyway).

I was subpoenaed to testify against him in Virginia a few years ago (2008 maybe, similar situation, after a NYE gig). He was ordered to pay restitution, but I'm not holding out hope of ever seeing a dime. At the time I was psyched that I got to go to VA and testify against him. I thought the three days of my time that it took to fly there, sit in court, and fly home would be worth it, to prevent him from scamming others (I was also hoping he would end up in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison).

It seems I placed too much faith in the American judicial system.

[jared]

Wow... thanks for the extra info nick. Its hard to believe an asshole like that can manage to slip away from crime after crime. I'm sorry that you also had to deal with this guy. Lets just hope that eventually he gets the STD ridden prison pounding that he deserves.

[davidkaye]

Be very careful about saying that somebody has "mafia connections". They could sue you and/or your company for libel and/or slander.

Best thing to do is get 50% of your money prior to the event and make sure the check clears before you perform. Losing half your money is better than losing it all. If the client balks then you know they're up to no good anyway.

[nicklikesfire]

Be very careful about saying that somebody has "mafia connections". They could sue you and/or your company for libel and/or slander.


Thanks for the advice, but I was at his trial. That statement was not an opinion or a presumption on my part, it is a fact.

[davidkaye]

Regardless, whether he has mafia connections or not has nothing to do with the fact that he bounced a check on you. It's still not a good tactic to bring it up. In fact it could backfire because people would see it as hyperbole and be less likely to take anything else said seriously.

[nicklikesfire]

Regardless, whether he has mafia connections or not has nothing to do with the fact that he bounced a check on you. It's still not a good tactic to bring it up. In fact it could backfire because people would see it as hyperbole and be less likely to take anything else said seriously.

People can choose to take the "mafia connections" statement however they want. If you want to assume it is hyperbole, go ahead. It does have something to do with the bounced check. I said it because I think it further clarifies that he is a professional criminal, which I think is important to this particular thread.

Maybe the best jugglers should stop saying they can juggle nine balls (some can, for sure) because people may take it as hyperbole and be less likely to take them seriously.

[davidkaye]

People bounce checks all the time who are not mafia-connected. Saying they're "mafia" has the same effect on people as saying they're "nazis". It doesn't improve the impact; it lessens it.

Again, get 50% up front and make sure the check clears before the performance. That's the way I work it. And those who refuse to put up 50% in advance simply aren't worth dealing with. This kind of demand is not unreasonable in the performing world when you're dealing with unknown promoters and bookers.

[nicklikesfire]

Hi Dave,

I don't want to keep posting in this thread, because I feel like it really isn't adding anything. But I'm really curious as to why you keep arguing with me about this (you have every right too, I'm just curious).

-The thread is about a specific case of check bouncing, by Gregory Campbell.

-I have had a similar interaction with Greg Campbell.

-I was subpoenaed to testify against him after his arrest and extradition to Virginia.

-During his trial I learned he had mafia connections.

-The fact that he has Mafia connections supports the fact that he is more than just an average check bouncer.

To use your nazi example: Pretend there was a gang of neo-nazi skin heads going around and beating the shit out of people at your local park. Don't you think it might be important for any news outlet reporting on the subject to mention that they are nazis, and not just a random gang of delinquents?

Or to put it another way, just because a fact seems outrageous, it doesn't mean that it is.

If you don't want to believe me when I say that Greg Campbell has mafia connections, then don't. But I do think that putting that information out there was the correct thing for me to do.

I'll refrain from posting any more replies to you about this, sorry if I ruined the thread!

To get this more on topic:

In my situation Gregory Campbell had another person pay me my deposit for the gig (the gig was a high money gig, so it was not half, but still a sizable amount). So that money cleared no problem. (The person who paid me the deposit was not "in" on the scam and ended up losing more than $30,000 I think).

Also, the check that Greg gave me took three months before it came back as a bad check. Since the gig wasn't booked more than three months in advance, even if he had written the check himself, he still would have gotten away with it.

Banks (by law, in the US anyway) must release the funds from a check into your account within seven days of you depositing the check. In my case it took three months for them to figure out that the check from Gregory Campbell was fraudulent.

People bounce checks all the time who are not mafia-connected. Saying they're "mafia" has the same effect on people as saying they're "nazis". It doesn't improve the impact; it lessens it.

Again, get 50% up front and make sure the check clears before the performance. That's the way I work it. And those who refuse to put up 50% in advance simply aren't worth dealing with. This kind of demand is not unreasonable in the performing world when you're dealing with unknown promoters and bookers.

[jared]

I for one am glad to know more about this guy. I don't doubt his mafia connections and to hear that is a fact as brought up in court, Its worth pointing out. All performers should know to avoid this man at all costs. If you work for him, you wont get paid.
Back when I did this gig, I had more trust in humanity and didn't ask for a deposit. Some of the other performers I talked to said that they got deposits but had to persistantly bug the guy until he finally paid up. Now I always get 50% before going.

[Irina]

Why do you take personal checks in the first place? All the party artists/entertainers I know take personal checks only for advance deposits - this way the check must clear BEFORE you do the gig. I only take corporate checks from companies which book me with invoice or agencies I work with. Everybody else have to pay in cash and I let them know in advance that I only take cash.