Free Busker Act for the animal shelter

[Ottawa Humane Society]

September 9, we need outside performers with a soft spot for pooches and cats, we have 1000 people coming to our 13th annual Wiggle Waggle Walkathon, we need entertainment and we are willing to give you lots of advertising, radio coverage, corporate mention on t-shirts. We need help form 10 am to noon or 12.30. Anyone interested? I wish we could pay but it's great exposure and you will really be helping the Humane Society.

[worldwidese]

We wish you could pay too! Buskers are not in the high income bracket, and it's a lot to ask them to donate their time to perform for exposure. That doesn't pay the rent. There are plenty of high income folks and corporations who could help the Shelter by sponsoring the performence for a chance to get THEIR exposure. That way you would get better quality entertainment. All it takes is some of your commitee's time to get the sponsors. <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Ottawa Humane Society:
September 9, we need outside performers with a soft spot for pooches and cats, I wish we could pay but it's great exposure and you will really be helping the Humane Society.

[Orange]

i don't think it's that bad for them to ask this. alot of buskerfests don't pay performers, and maybe that is a bad thing, but this is a good cause, and as a performer who is also a supporter of animals rights, i would do this fest if i lived in ottawa, or close.

[Chance]

A fund raiser for AIDS or a world hunger campaign, **these** are worthy causes. Sign me up! But it fries my brain when activists put animal "rights" on the same level as those of human beings. (And this comes from someone who was raised on a farm with no less than 7 dogs, two horses and about 50 cats.)

[Orange]

just because you consider human rights to be more important than animal rights, it doesn't mean that animals don't deserve rights aswell. someone has to stick up for those who can't do it for themselves.

[Chance]

In many countries an animal shelter would look an awful lot like a supermarket, and the only rights afforded there would be, "dark meat or light?".

[Todd]

OK, if you really want to do this gig, to help out a struggling good cause, and not feel cheated, then donate your time and write it off on your taxes.
Send them a letter saying you will donate your time to them and list your normal rate you would charge for a corporate gig, then get the organization to give you a letter saying that you made a charitable donation to them of your time, and since your time is money, you can write off on your taxes. It is totally win/win.
I've done this before for organizations that I wish to support but do not have the finances to pay a full rate.

And at the risk of getting into this debate, I just want to clear up a misunderstanding that seems to be happening over what a Humane Society is. A Humane Society, and 'animal rights' organizations like PETA have different mission statements. Most Humane Societies are an alternative to animal shelters that kill thier animals once a month. Instead of killing them, the animals live there until adopted. While many PETA members may work for a Humane Society, they are not one in the same.

[Steven Ragatz]

On the topic of being able to write off donations of "time"...

I asked my tax attorney about this. I wondered if I "donated" a performance to a not-for-profit organization, would I be able to take a deduction based on my rate if I arranged the appropriate letters etc. He literally laughed in my face. His reply was no. His explanation was that one couldn't place a rate on such an item as "time" or a commodity like a "performance". He said that it would be impossible to determine the fee as there is no market information on which to base the value.

Now, I don't really have total confidence in this guy, so I am not going to take his word for it verbatim, but his explanation was most convincing and it seemed plausible. If anyone out there has some legal experience in the matter, and knows how this sort of thing works, I would love to hear how it can be done. Otherwise, I am convinced that one cannot legally do it unless there is an actual exchange of money. Then, of course, you have to declare the income before you donate it back.

If you hired ten different tax attorneys to do your return, you would undoubtedly owe ten different amounts...

Steven Ragatz

[Stretch]

No, you can't get a business or tax deduction for donating your time. (the IRS doesn't want your time, just your money! :&gt; )) You can however claim the milage and any supplies you might have used in the course of your performance. ie milage to and from the event, and supplies such as balloons, or fuel for your torches. This would be for a recognised charity with the designation from the IRS.

A charitable event is, of course a good reason for YOU to send out press releases, etc.. Don't wait on the charity to promote you, be proactive and do it your self.

Walking tall and stretching imaginations!

Bill "Stretch" Coleman
http://Stiltwalker.com/


------------------
Walking tall and stretching imaginations!
Bill 'Stretch' Coleman

[Todd]

Thanks for the feed-back guys.
I've heard various things regarding this issue from various accountants but I've been told that, your show is a product ,and donating a performance, to a charity is like a craftsman donating a product to a charity.
But I will look into your takes on this further.
Thanks

[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 07-01-2001).]

[Todd]

Ok, I just called a buddy of mine, and got the scoop on this. They are getting ready to put another change in the tax code, and one of the things under consideration is allowing business people who specialize in the performing arts to write off donations of the kind we have been discussing.
I assume that there may be charts, graphs and other confusing and red-tape filled systems of measurement to determine 'market-value' of said 'product'. But as of late there has been no decisions as to weather or not this will happen. Odds are on NO.
Thanks for the tips gang. Egg on my face.

[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 07-02-2001).]

[BFlat]

I'd rather not get involved in discussion about this anymore. I've done it so much before and I've heard all the excuses in favor and against.

All I want to say here is about this famous sentence: "we are willing to give you lots of advertising, radio coverage, corporate mention on t-shirts..." That one too I have heard many times. My humble opinion? BULLSHIT, I'm not buying this anymore.

from someone who used to beleive in that crap and who's been on TV more than 200 times, on the radio more than a dozen times, in the newspaper countless number of times throughout her life... and whom people still aren't asking for autographs when she walks on the streets.

T-Shirt, special mentions, radio shows, media ect DON'T help one's exposure. What does is how YOU respect and present yourself. Any charity organization, no matter how noble their cause may be, if they are serious about doing a fund raising, should treat the people they are asking help seriously. To them I say; Just say the damn truth. Just say that you are looking for volunteers if you can't afford to pay them but cut the crap about the exposure and about "Oh you'll be in the paper" kind of thing. My name and my picture have been printed into various newspaper, etc and all I've gotten from that were simply more people and charity organization calling me asking me to volunteer. It's like publicity that says "I work for free". The government helps such charities, maybe not a lot, but it does. But it doesn't help street performers. So once and for all use the money that the government supplies you at the right place. Thank you very much.

[Lynneski]

This sounds like it's verging into the "we should be paid" thread.

On the subject of donating one's performance in return for a tax deduction, my experience has been that one may donate a good or service "in-kind", but the only way to get a deduction (in Ontario, anyways) is to have the agency pay you for the performance/product and then you donate the amount back as cash.

Doesn't exactly work out equitably, because the performer has to declare the income (right?!?), and only gets a portion of the year's worth of donations deducted from taxes owing. I'm sure there's a math brain out there that can figure out what percentage MORE the agency would have to pay you in order to make up for the disparity in income tax versus deduction.

If you're established as a business, rather than an individual, you might be able to write off the gig as a marketing expense. But as Bill sez, probably only the amount you are out of pocket, rather than the value of lost income.

In short, it makes bad business sense from the numbers side. And it doesn't work from an exposure perspective, unless the media in which you are featured is targetted at folks who are likely to hire you in future, rather than the public at large.

'Course, everyone has causes they choose to support, and their own (non-financial) reasons for doing so.

Lynne

[mnozzolio]

It wasn't clear from the first post, but would performers at least be allowed to pass the hat? If so, it seems that the issue of being paid by the organizers would be moot. Aren't we always looking for places to perform? The least the organizers could do is allow hat passing.

[theballoonman]

WOW,I THOUGHT I WAS BITTER AND JADED...
CANADA ISNT REGULATED BY THE IRS(NOT YET)
AND ATAX RECIEPT IS GREAT...CHARGE A GREAT CORPORATE RATE AND WRITE IT OFF...
EVEN IF YOU DO DECLARE IT AS INCOME,ITS PROBABLY THE BEST INCOME TO DECLARE...
(ONE WITH A TAX EXEMPTION)
IF THATS NOT YOUR CAUSE,THEN DONT VOLUNTEER,I'VE ALWAYS FOUND GREAT REWARDS FOR THE FREE STUFF I'VE DONE,MONETARILY AND TO MYSELF...NOT ALWAYS IMMEDIATLY,BUT ALWAYS.
ALL I'M SAYING IS GIVE PEAS A CHANCE
PULL MY FINGER
MIKE

[theballoonman]

wow instant karma.
just talkin about it bumped me from new member to member.
gotta go light a candle.


(i'm in california,rolling blackouts)
mike

[Ottawa Humane Society]

I am the person who placed the ad for the Buskers for the Humane Society event in September. I am sorry our request generated so much bitterness and heated discussion.I guess we volunteers get caught up in our cause, it is not easy to volunteer at the Humane Society if you love animals; there is so much abuse; we can ONLY do it because of the people who care about animals. We know of course they are not more important than people; we have families too and I believe we have our priorities right. We are withdrawing our request for a Busker performance and will look elsewhere. Thank you all for taking the time to reply to our request.

[Steven Ragatz]

This morning I sent this message to the Ottawa Humane Society:

&lt;snip&gt;
To whom it may concern,

As a regular reader of the performers.net site, I saw your request for performers to work at your upcoming walk-a-thon in September. The request clearly stated that buskers were asked to come and perform without compensation. After the request was submitted, a bevy of frustrated street performers replied with heated opinions debating whether or not being asked to perform for free was a reasonable request. The person from your office has since withdrawn the original offer.

As someone who has been a professional entertainer for many years, I can say that the Humane Society's request was perfectly justified and posted in the proper context and with the proper intent. I see no reason why the request for performers should be withdrawn simply because a handful of individuals have complained.

You may or may not get anyone to participate; nevertheless you shouldn't be put off by the attitudes of the performers.net readership. As with any Internet forum, there are those who like to post messages just to be heard. The individuals who post do not represent the attitudes of the performing community as a whole.

In the future, I hope that your organization feels free to submit requests for volunteer performers to the site again. There is never any harm in asking.

Steven Ragatz
Variety Performer/Circus Artist
&lt;end snip&gt;

If we, the readership, of performers.net wish to encourage promoters, corporate event planners, festival organizers, and clients in general, to post gig opportunities to the board, we should take care of our image in order to promote a supportive environment. Not everyone is interested in engaging in debate.

[Jim]

I second Steven's sentiment.

I think, as professional entertainers, we all deserve to be compensated for our work. However, many of us DO occasionally work for free for a client of our choice. There's nothing wrong with the way the Ottawa Humane Society asked for performers. It is our choice to either accept pro bono work or politely turn it down.

We need to be professional in our interactions with clients and with our postings on these forums. If you don't like the way a client offers a gig, a calm, professional, educational reply will be far more effective than a berating one. And like Steven said, we don't want to scare people away from posting opportunities that COULD actually be good opportunities.

Jim

[Ottawa Humane Society 2]

I am writing to you on behalf of the Ottawa Humane Society. I am a volunteer helping to coordinate the entertainment and activities for the 2001 Wiggle Waggle Walkathon (WWW), the Society's biggest fundraiser. I have been on vacation for the last couple of weeks, and asked a wonderful lady to help out in recruiting entertainment while I was away. Unfortunately I didn't provide her with all of the information and details that you would need to know. I apologize for that.

We are still very interested in securing a dynamic act for our event, so I hope you'll take the time to read the below details.

The WWW is a 5km walk for which most people come out and bring their dogs - but apparently there are also some cats and ferrets. All animals are on-leash at all times, by law.

This year we're hoping to create a festival/carnival atmosphere, and in order to do that, we wanted to have a couple of buskers. We're hoping to have two different acts, set up far enough away from one another as not to detract from either's show.

Here are some details:

Who: Ottawa Humane Society
What: Wiggle Waggle Walkathon
When: Sunday, September 9, 2001
9am - 12:30pm
Where: The Arboretum (Experimental Farm)
Why: Because it is a great cause - all living things require health, kindness and nurturing; not only people!!

The walk itself takes place between 10am-11am, so we thought we could have a show or two between both 9am-10am and then between 11am-12pm, while people are eating lunch. In addition, if you like, you could set up during the walk along the walk route at one of the water stops and do maybe a mini version of your show. That's completely up to you. Keep in mind that the surface along the walk route would be all grass and/or gravel.

We expect a turn out of about 2000 people, of all ages. There are a lot of families, but also a large young adult - middle age demographic. All said, I think you'd be guaranteed a pretty captive audience.

We can offer you a good-sized area on pavement or grass, whichever you prefer. We'll also provide free lunch tickets (I think we serve hotdogs or hamburgers).

We're hoping we can obtain your services free-of-charge since we're a non-profit organization with a low budget, but you would be encouraged to pass your hat and would of course keep all of the profits you make that day.

I hope I've given you enough details to make it sound promising! If so, or if you have any questions or would just like to discuss, I'd love to hear from you. Please feel free to email me at:

heather.logan@ccra-adrc.gc.ca

Thanks for your time. I look forward to hearing from you.

Heather Logan

[worldwidese]

Seems I started a needless controversy. My actual point was that it would be nice if the asking party would donate some of it's time also! This time to be used to rustle up sponsors who don't have the time, but would be only too happy to donate money to pay the performer, and get their company name in front of the public (exposure). Thus professional performer/buskers could be engaged and EVERYONE would be happy. For such a good cause sponsors are easy to get. For the record, I very much endorse this particular cause, and I myself am presently caring for 6 cats, none of which is officially mine, but were abandoned by people who moved away from the neighbourhood. <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by worldwidese:
We wish you could pay too! Buskers are not in the high income bracket, and it's a lot to ask them to donate their time to perform for exposure. That doesn't pay the rent. There are plenty of high income folks and corporations who could help the Shelter by sponsoring the performence for a chance to get THEIR exposure. That way you would get better quality entertainment. All it takes is some of your commitee's time to get the sponsors.

[Prof Willie B]

Like everyone here, we do freebies when and for whom we choose, but we often get many more requests. We've found it very valuable to demand a fee and still pass a hat but give the hat to the charity.
Think about it for a bit.
You are paid, so you're free to do a great show without worrying, you can really turn the screws up on your audience and bottle mercilessly (one of my favorite bits is to drag a really straight representative of the charity on to the pitch to supervise, ala state lottery, and hold the hat). Volunteers bottling the crowd help. Make it their responsibility to make the fee money back, then, to make a profit.
If they put a great audience in front of you, you will prove why your show is worth paying for and if they don't you can demonstrate why it is not worth you doing it any other way.
The most important part is, it does educate the audience, and the organiser, into paying for what they get.
Try it some time, it works for me and I'd love to hear if it works for you. I have seen some astounding hats come out of small crowds and end up with a regular gig. The smiles are wide all round when the hat exceeds your fee.



[This message has been edited by Prof Willie B (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Rich Potter]

Worldwiese,

Sounds like you are a good candidate for this gig and to get compensated:

Ask for six vouchers from the humane society (or Ottawa shelter) to get your six cats spayed or neutered free of charge. It's a win-win situation, and guaranteed to generate publicity for you (responsible street-performer cat owner) and the shelter (helping people do the right thing, finding solutions, etc.) That amounts to between $180 US and $700 US in value, depending on where you live.

Just a thought.

--Rich
(who is allowed to live in a house with four cats)