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-   -   permits (http://www.performers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4651)

lucky_8 06-09-06 06:30 AM

permits
 
I have a few questions about them.
1.how do i know if I need it or not
2.where can i get one
3.can I just go on performing without one until I getone if I need it.

I dought I need one in as little of a city as I am in but I think I might need to look in to it.

lucky_8 06-09-06 09:36 AM

im not going to street perform because i don't have any time but i would still like to know the answer to these questions in caase i do start performing

Peter 06-09-06 02:38 PM

Well Lucky_8, you ask a good question. Unfortunately no one knows where in the hell you are asking about. You don't say where you live.

However call the city offices and ask them. They will probably not know either but that way when you get stopped you can tell the cop that you asked and they said it was OK.

It is far easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission

lucky_8 06-09-06 02:55 PM

im sorry i didn't say where i lived. i live in marion north carolina. it is a small town next to ashville nc.

MabJustMab 06-20-06 01:35 PM

Hey lucky!

my friends who live in asheville area who busk tell me that they do not have permits. I have busked with them and we were never harrassed.

make of that info what you will. but really? if you want to know where to start, try calling your local police non-emergency line, and talk to an officer.

experience has shown that officers often do not know the law when it comes to busking (I totaly mean no disrespect to any law enforcement officials), but they will have a better idea where to look to find out.

calling them will show them that you are trying to be totaly legal. and hey, you might also meet some great folks on the force who could pull you out of pinch if it comes down to it.

make sure you write down the name of every officer you talk to, so when you talk to the next officer, you can say "Officer Superman suggested that you have all the answers" bla bla blah.

that's what I did when I was trying to find out about fire arts in my area. turns out, I didn't need a permit, and I'm totaly legal to practice in my back yard. the local fire station even expressed an interest in coming out to watch! (no free shows here buddy, nothing to see, keep moving....)

I have the Fire marshell's name, his deputy, the fire chief, and a few additional names of guys at the station. I'm totaly covered.

Good luck.

circusboy90210 05-17-12 07:05 PM

Permits??
 
what is a permit??you have first amendment rights and to expect to have a permit is placing extra burden of prood on one citizen over another just for using their rights more vocally than others. we need to sue any city that requires a permit to use your own god given rights.

Stoned 05-18-12 03:41 PM

I'm from Maine, US. Augusta which is the capitol doesn't really have the foot traffic for busking. Old Orchard Beach, ME does. However I was stopped by one officer one time. Every other cop who saw me let me go on performing. But these officers who let me be didnt here my hat lines. When I started asking for my hat, that one cop told me I needed a permit to perform.

Would that be a city law, or county?
Traveling to another town or state to busk, then being told you need a permit. It's a risk, a risk of being broke and hungry.
Shlud always call a head I guess

circusboy90210 05-18-12 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoned (Post 60146)
I'm from Maine, US. Augusta which is the capitol doesn't really have the foot traffic for busking. Old Orchard Beach, ME does. However I was stopped by one officer one time. Every other cop who saw me let me go on performing. But these officers who let me be didnt here my hat lines. When I started asking for my hat, that one cop told me I needed a permit to perform.

Would that be a city law, or county?
Traveling to another town or state to busk, then being told you need a permit. It's a risk, a risk of being broke and hungry.
Shlud always call a head I guess

that's why this place is here because not all municipality's even know if it's legal or not there, police just don't know what the law is in many places and just assume if your getting money it must be illegal & then chose to enforce some obscure panhandling statute as if you were begging for money, instead of providing pschic value to the community at large, which then rewards your efforts with pieces of paper or metal that tell you that everything is ok & you will eat well, & sleep in safety tonight if not in their homes. :cool:


if you do the right things you really only need to live in a city of 30k or more to survive, best thing is to couch surf your way to a larger city & stay there for the summer.

davidkaye 05-19-12 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by circusboy90210 (Post 60135)
what is a permit??you have first amendment rights and to expect to have a permit is placing extra burden of prood on one citizen over another just for using their rights more vocally than others. we need to sue any city that requires a permit to use your own god given rights.

I agree that people need to go out and busk and the hell with permits! There are already, what, 4 or 5 Supreme Court rulings in our favor. As long as we don't sell products we're cool legally.

I remember wayyyy back when mime artist Robert Shields was arrested in San Francisco's Union Square for "miming without a license". The uproar from people was so intense that the city soon dropped the charges and never asked for licenses again...

circusboy90210 05-19-12 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidkaye (Post 60151)
I agree that people need to go out and busk and the hell with permits! There are already, what, 4 or 5 Supreme Court rulings in our favor. As long as we don't sell products we're cool legally.

I remember wayyyy back when mime artist Robert Shields was arrested in San Francisco's Union Square for "miming without a license". The uproar from people was so intense that the city soon dropped the charges and never asked for licenses again...

haha I got arrested for crashing an event I've crashed since it's first day 10 years ago. today they had me arrested. my dad''s seems to think that the people who saw me get arrested will never deal with me again. when in actuality people came to me while I was on the street 3 hours later. telling me how fucked the police are in this town & tipping me for doing next to nothing.

davidkaye 05-20-12 03:02 AM

Well, crashing a private event it totally different from busking on the street or in other public places...

circusboy90210 05-20-12 12:53 PM

crashing an event.
 
the way I see it a festival is a public event where everyone is welcome. to expect me to have a different set of expectations on my rights on the same piece of public property during an event is unconstitutional. a festival is a public festivity my part of doing that is handing out free balloons to the general public who in turn gives me energy back in the form of paper currency as appreciation in return so that I can live long enough and prosper to do it again. If the public does not give me anything this is their vote against me. the festival director should not have this power in a Democracy, the people are the ones who should decide with their dollar whether or not I should be there as a member of the community. :jester:

Peter 05-21-12 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by circusboy90210 (Post 60158)
the way I see it a festival is a public event where everyone is welcome. to expect me to have a different set of expectations on my rights on the same piece of public property during an event is unconstitutional. a festival is a public festivity my part of doing that is handing out free balloons to the general public who in turn gives me energy back in the form of paper currency as appreciation in return so that I can live long enough and prosper to do it again. If the public does not give me anything this is their vote against me. the festival director should not have this power in a Democracy, the people are the ones who should decide with their dollar whether or not I should be there as a member of the community. :jester:

Small problem in your thinking. It starts with the first sentence. A festival is a public event, however it is sponsered and put on by private parties. i.e. church whatever. In all festivals I have ever been at the vendors pay rent for their space, this rent gives them the right to charge money for their goods & services. You walk in as a "freebie" and start balloon twisting that is dollars going to YOU, that could be going to the vendors. From their way of thinking, you are a thief. You are preventing the atendees from spending money with the vendors by taking it away from the atendees first. Sorry but in a legal sense the festival not only has a right to throw you out, but could really be assholes by putting your butt in jail for trespassing. :(

circusboy90210 05-21-12 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter (Post 60161)
Small problem in your thinking. It starts with the first sentence. A festival is a public event, however it is sponsered and put on by private parties. i.e. church whatever. In all festivals I have ever been at the vendors pay rent for their space, this rent gives them the right to charge money for their goods & services. You walk in as a "freebie" and start balloon twisting that is dollars going to YOU, that could be going to the vendors. From their way of thinking, you are a thief. You are preventing the atendees from spending money with the vendors by taking it away from the atendees first. Sorry but in a legal sense the festival not only has a right to throw you out, but could really be assholes by putting your butt in jail for trespassing. :(

the thing is if anything I should be paid to be there . however it's not a case of competing for the same dollar I would make the same money on the other side of the barricade. the 14th amendment says that all attendees have the same rights , street performing is a 1st amendment issue . tresspassing?? it's a public event where all are welcome ,unless they have a sign that say's specifically no street performers allowed .(which would be a violation of my 14th amendment rights.) the money people spend on me is not the same money the vendors thought was for them. in fact the people don't plan to spend their money with any particular party , so to say it ws the vendors money is ridiculous. I'm a member of the community too , the people vote for me to be there too by giving me money . we street performers have just as much right to be there as anybody else. to say otherwise is a violation of our ability to express ourselves. the term is freedom of speech , not ability to pay for permission. :jester:

Peter 05-21-12 08:51 AM

I would love to talk to your criminal law professors, Circusboy. I am not a lawyer but I do have one that answers my questions. You're caught up in the "constitutional bullshit." We have freedom of speech, UNTIL our freedoms interfere with another party's freedom to make a living. What you say sounds good, but the reality is that you can (and will if you piss off the wrong person) go to jail for trespassing by doing unauthorized soliciting at a festival. I have seen it happen. We were at the Brown County Ohio fair and had a face painting booth. Some guy set up in an unused spot next to us selling pins, for $2 to $5 each. 3 sheriff deputies calmly walked up to him, asked for his receipt for the spot rental. He said he "forgot it." They handcuffed him, confiscated everything he had and took him to jail on the spot. This can and will happen to you if you keep pushing your luck.

circusboy90210 05-21-12 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter (Post 60164)
I would love to talk to your criminal law professors, Circusboy. I am not a lawyer but I do have one that answers my questions. You're caught up in the "constitutional bullshit." We have freedom of speech, UNTIL our freedoms interfere with another party's freedom to make a living. What you say sounds good, but the reality is that you can (and will if you piss off the wrong person) go to jail for trespassing by doing unauthorized soliciting at a festival. I have seen it happen. We were at the Brown County Ohio fair and had a face painting booth. Some guy set up in an unused spot next to us selling pins, for $2 to $5 each. 3 sheriff deputies calmly walked up to him, asked for his receipt for the spot rental. He said he "forgot it." They handcuffed him, confiscated everything he had and took him to jail on the spot. This can and will happen to you if you keep pushing your luck.

look up majic mike in seattle. you will see it's not bullshit. however my street performing does not prevent a vendor from making a living as long as I don't crowd him/her out. community events are for everybody therefore my freedom of speech is just as legit as the preachers lots of fest's never kick out. however I'm not selling anything. I have had run in's with the law for not having a permit which I chose not to fight the constitutionality of that at the time to the ignorant flat foot, I just got a permit. selling stuff 7 street performing are two different things protected by two different sets of laws.

I've done enough research to know that excluding street performers from community events in a community they are part of is unconstitutional. some people celebrate an event by drinking 7 eating , some celebrate by juggling or playing a guitar, etc. now if the people chose to reward them with money so those people can afford food and drink, that is between those persons & god. :jester:

oh forgot to mention an event in miami I used to pay to get into and busk all over the place. I had a right to be there as I payed to get in. the police had to wait untill I refused to sit down in the back of a theatre while trying to see a majick show, they kept telling me to sit down as if standing up were illegal. this is how they eventually got me out of there but as I was not actually breaking any laws they could not arrest me. I've street performed in every mid sized to major city in canada & usa, many times.

Peter 05-21-12 01:15 PM

OK, whatever.

circusboy90210 05-21-12 01:18 PM

whatever???
 
alway's welcoma devil's advocate. however it is not constitutional to exclude a performer from a public event. do some more research on magic mike seattle he proves the case for us.:jester:

davidkaye 05-21-12 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by circusboy90210 (Post 60170)
alway's welcoma devil's advocate. however it is not constitutional to exclude a performer from a public event. do some more research on magic mike seattle he proves the case for us.:jester:

Believe whatever you want to believe, but an event if public only if there are no restrictions to entry. If they charge admission or require that the attendees belong to some group (such as Oracle database or Apple users), then the event is private, not public.

In San Francisco we have lots of trade events such as Oracle and Apple. Oracle has an annual concert on Treasure Island where an area is blocked off and only people who have bought tickets for the Oracle trade show are able to attend the concert. This is a private event, not a public one, even though the concert happens on Treasure Island, a public space.

circusboy90210 05-21-12 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidkaye (Post 60171)
Believe whatever you want to believe, but an event if public only if there are no restrictions to entry. If they charge admission or require that the attendees belong to some group (such as Oracle database or Apple users), then the event is private, not public.

In San Francisco we have lots of trade events such as Oracle and Apple. Oracle has an annual concert on Treasure Island where an area is blocked off and only people who have bought tickets for the Oracle trade show are able to attend the concert. This is a private event, not a public one, even though the concert happens on Treasure Island, a public space.

agreed, the events i'm talking about have no barrrier to entry all are considered welcome except pets at some. hence a public event. :jester:


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