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Old 10-29-02, 11:08 AM   #1
<Int Talent Booking>
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Post Contract in the UK - International Talent Booking

11 Artists need for summer 2003 season in UK
--------------------------------------------

We need a variety of artists for our venues, so this is open to all disciplines. Jugglers, mimes, magicians, escape, swordswallowing, balancing, comedians, etc.

We are looking for performers who have a 30 - 45 minutes stage show, to do 1 show per day six days per week. You may be asked to lead a workshop one or two times per week, as well.

Contract will run from the end of May until the end of September, and includes accomodation, travel, company car, plus petrol allowance.


Please send all promo and video to:

International Talent Booking
P.O. Box 15647
Boston, MA 02215

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: Jim ]</p>
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Old 10-31-02, 12:58 AM   #2
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There is also a weekly salary for the job-- to clear up some questions.
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Old 10-31-02, 09:15 AM   #3
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WARNING !!!!!!
This gig has been the topic of much discussion. I considered it until I found out some facts from the people in the trenches. Basically it's a tour of caravan Parks (for those of you in the U.S., glorified campgrounds) . The accomodations are mobile homes in the parks (often left for the Caberet acts and definitely trashy). The pay is hardly worth giving up prime season on the streets for it. You will probably make more in one or two good festival days, than you will in a week on this tour. This agent also doesn't have a credible name in the buisness. For those of you who want the adventure. Good luck, but be careful.
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Old 10-31-02, 10:02 AM   #4
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Gossip control,

I did this job two years in a row. The first year it was awful, it's true. I can give you all the horror stories and then some.

They asked me to come back and I said NO... Unless a lot changes were made. To my surprise they met my demands. The management of the parks and the head office worked with me and made a 180 degree turn.

They made all the changes-- especially the living accomodations, and amount of travel time. I was not living in a caravan, but a chalet and drove around 10 hours total per week. Audiences range from brain dead to good-- it also depends on your skill as a performer.
If you walk out on stage and do fifteen minutes of build up only to spin three plates on an audience volunteer, you're not going to get much response.

Is it a dream job-- no. It did, however turn into good job. I'm not going to try to paint a glossy coat over this one-- all I'll say is that I had a great time last year and made a lot of friends.


Every job has plusses and minuses. If you have any questions, email me or call me and I'll be happy to discuss both with you.

etienne


p.s. The agent is very credible, and has been very loyal to me. I trust them.

p.p.s. "John Harding" -- you registered on p-net the day you put up the post, and say you're from DC. I'm originally from DC and don't know you... hmmmmm

[ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: le pire ]</p>
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Old 11-03-02, 06:12 PM   #5
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FYI,

I did this gig also. Although the conditions were'nt as expected it was an opportunity to create new material and get paid for it as well. Any gig is what you make it.
Etienne, glad to hear things were much better the second time around. Drop me a line sometime.
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Old 11-05-02, 01:09 AM   #6
Sean McMahon
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I did this gig, and International Talent Booking did not honor their contract. I did all the shows, and they held money back from me. Their reason was that Rob Torres stomped on a car, and so they held me responsible for the actions of Rob. Then they hired him back. International Talent Booking and Patrick Doyle, I'm still waiting for you to honor the rest of this contract in the amount of $650-$1,000.

ITB also ripped off my fellow performers, two clowns from Ringling. The conditions on my tour were miserable- moldy plastic showers, and you move every night. The tour managers treat you like a busboy, they do not value entertainers. Please learn from my mistake- if there is any other gig you can take, take it. The contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on, and I'm still pursuing legal action against Patrick Doyle.

Patrick, if you are an honorable agent, then send me a check. Someone will take this gig, I'm sure, but experienced entertainers, I echo the concerns of others- beware of ITB.
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Old 11-05-02, 02:48 AM   #7
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Hi Sean,

I'd like to clarify a few things:

ITB did not hire Rob back, and to my knowledge never will again. He cost them a lot more than money-- he destroyed both friendship and trust.

I toured with Rob and I was personally very hurt by what he did, because I too considered him my friend.

That being said-- we all make mistakes, the question is can we learn from them.

I hope Rob learned.

I did. And Bourne Leisure learned. ITB learned.

Like I said in my last email, this job went from being hell to very good.

The year you did this it was hell, I agree because I was there. The administration a disaster -- the company had literally tripled in size and they were overwhelmed. The project we worked on was an of an experiment -- we were guinea pigs of a sort. It's unfair and life stinks, but that was the risk we took.

It's nice to see you write big tough talk about legal action on a public forum. A funny thing about the internet and email -- we can write in cyberspace things we can't say to someone when standing face to face to them. It's quite easy to make bold gestures on a performers forum. You and I both know $ amount in question is pathetic and really not worth the effort.

You can go and trash people's names here on P-net, but what good does that really do?

I'm sorry for the problems you had. Nobody said show biz would be easy-- in fact everyone I know has always advised against it.

I any event, I will say again what I said before:

This job went from being hell to good. The administration went from being confused to organized. The tour managers who mistreated people where all FIRED. People respected me and I made many, many friends. My accomodations where very good and I did not move around every night. Another thing that changed was who was hired.

Those ringling clowns you mentioned, they had no act. They were two walkaround performers who didn't have enough stage material for 10 minutes, let alone the 45 they had to do.

I would do this job again.

yours,

etienne

p.s. I no longer have your phone number and your email address is not in your info. Please email me: lepire@hotmail.com

[ 11-05-2002: Message edited by: le pire ]</p>
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Old 11-05-02, 07:28 AM   #8
Sean McMahon
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Here is a letter written by people on my tour who had to fight for their money after they did all their shows. They told me they had to finally forget about their money:

Dear Patrick Doyle,

I have just received a letter from your company (ITB). It states that I will not receive my final two weeks of pay. Instead, my money will pay for damages to the green Vauxhall. Apparently, you have taken one week of my pay for damages for which you feel I am responsible for and one week of my pay for damages for which you feel Ben is responsible. This is unacceptable.

First, Ben Schave is NOT responsible for ANY damages to the car. He signed nothing at Thrifty rental. He did NOT drive the car at any time. His contract has ZERO indications that he is liable for ANY damage. Leave Ben out of this. Secondly, you have NO right to take advantage of our marital status. You may NOT deduct money from my pay for anything involving him. We were not contracted together. We were not paid together. Why would we be billed together? Ben would have been invoiced had he been single.

The amount of money in question is unusually high. I find it hard to believe that the damages on the caróas described by you and Donna Jungóamounted to as high a number as you have withheld from meónot to mention the amount withheld from Sean McMahon being added to it. All I know about is a cigarette burn, a broken passenger mirror, and two missing hubcaps. Ben and I mentioned that we donít ever remember seeing hubcaps on the car. Sean explained the mirror. I mentioned that Ben and I were the only ones who smoked in the car and therefore would take responsibility for that, however we no longer take responsibility for it. Ruth Langridge of Hammond smokes. Why wouldnít she smoke while returning the car? I now believe that she is just as bright a suspect for that as I am. Further more, if there are any dents or scratches on the body of the car, then ITB or Bourne Leisure should talk to Ruth Langridge of Hammond. We left the car with her. There were no such flaws when we dropped it off. Everything except the mirror should be directed toward Ruth Langridge.

If you feel there are any costs for which you feel I am liable, send an invoice and reason why I would be responsible for those things. If I am, I will gladly pay.

Your violation of my contract has been ridiculous. The pay schedule was changed. There was never anything in writing amending that. We drove much further distances on a day-by-day basis than the contract called for. My pay way withheld. The contract allows for that only in case of termination. I was not terminated. I did the work I was contracted for and have yet to be paid for it. I have been patient for a long timeótoo long. I am owed two full weeks of pay. Payment is due.

Please, send me a check payable to Caitlin Reilly in the amount of $1500. This is the amount of my final two weeks of pay. This is what the contract between myself and ITB requires of you. If you feel there are any costs for which you feel I am liable, send an invoice and reason why I would be responsible for those things. If I am, I will gladly pay.
I understand that the laws are different in England and we have to abide by them. I also understand that there are extenuating circumstances. I need to be paid. I deserve to be paid. I do not work for free.

Please correct this situation by December 30th or I will have to take further action. Iím sorry, but I feel that you taking advantage of us and cannot stand for it.

Thank you.
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Old 11-05-02, 07:56 AM   #9
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Rob Torres is still on the ITB website.

Yes, le pire, nobody said it would be easy- but the CONTRACT said we would be paid, and we weren't. That's against the law. I'm just warning my fellow performers.

I did meet a lot of nice people in England.The tour was hard, no big deal, we all know that life on the road can be tough- but I think we all expect to be paid for our sacrifices. The contract did not protect me or my friends. I'm just putting in my two cents, people can make up their own minds.
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Old 11-05-02, 11:01 AM   #10
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Their web page needs to be seriously updated...

They honored my contract.


etienne
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Old 11-05-02, 01:39 PM   #11
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Dear Sean,

The actions of Rob Torres have nothing to do with why money was withheld from your paycheck.

You, Ben and Caitlin were given a rental car for both personal and professional use during your 10 week stay. The car was in pristine condition when it left Thrifty Rental, but your group brought it back with $2541.75 worth of damages.

Subsequently $750 was withheld from each of you. ITB paid the remaining $291. This was not in violation of your contract.

The damage reports and the subsequent repair bills can be posted on this public forum if you wish.

Just like performers need to trust their agents, agents need to trust their performers. We learned a lot that year about the kind of people we will hire in the future.

We have since booked both this job again and others similar to it. We are far more selective as to the personal character of the people we hire, in addition to the quality of their performance. We are happy to say we have not had any similar repeats of the incidents which caused your paycheck to be docked.


International Talent Booking

[ 11-16-2002: Message edited by: Int Talent Booking ]</p>
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Old 11-25-02, 12:52 AM   #12
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Dear Pat,
You may try to take my money, but please donít act like it was ethical or legal. I wish you hadnít tried to run slipshod over the facts. I broke a mirror. Your insinuations about my character will not go unchallenged. I do my shows, and don't cause trouble, but I don't expect to pay for the mistakes of others.

Yes, post the bill here- scan it in. Show me a mirror that cost $750.

Pat really knows nothing about the condition of the car before or after it was used. We do. The charges made on our car were fraudulent. That has nothing to do with ITB. For this, we donít blame Pat. It was just part of a tour where the performer gets walloped big time from every angle!

It wasnít just ITB. Lots of unethical things happened on this tour, including drugs on a nightly basis by the people who drove us. But folks- you donít give cars to a tour where they drive on the other side of the road on tiny streets for 10 weeks without insurance. How is that good management?

It is ironic that ITB is offering to show an invoice now. Where was it one year ago when Ben and Caitlin clearly asked for it in a letter I posted on this site? Yes, Pat, please post the bill for a mirror that cost $750. I am waiting for you to post that. Show me the part of my contract that says I am to share the damages caused by other people. I ask that you show me how much the mirror cost, and send me the rest of my money.

The long and short of it, fellow performers, is that this agent, ITB, violated a contract by withholding exorbitant amounts of money on excessive damages caused by another person or persons.

Pat says that since that tour they have hired better performers with better character. You could find no better character than the way I conducted myself on this tour. No drugs, and I've never been drunk in my life. I donítí know experienced performers who are willing to work for half the average minimum. Even Pat said that breaking a mirror was not the worst thing anyone's ever done. Accidents do happen, and was willing to pay for MY actions, not others.

The person who caused the most damage Rob Torres is still on the itbooking.com website. This is contradictory, or at the very least sloppy management and extremely outdated representation. Itís a glaring example of what you can expect.

The only thing I can guarantee is that as the performer, the one who does the work, the one whom without there would be no show- you will take the brunt of any loss caused by others. Bourne Leisure takes full advantage of the fact that you donít live in the UK.

Itís quite possible that some of my money went to pay for the breakneck driving of our tour manager, a woman SO dangerous, she once ordered me out on the side of the road if I didnít like her maniacal driving.

Her excuse for her treacherous driving was "if the motor vehicle department thought I was unsafe, they wouldnít have given me a license!" Talk about adventure! She crashed the front of our tour van into a car with a boat on it (and I do have pictures of that), and told us that insurance would pay for it. If that was insured, why werenít our cars insured? Or were they?

There are too many jobs that won't do this to you. Do a little extra work and find them. ITB and Bourne Leisure are a problem not only for performers, but other agencies as well who need us to take them for their word. As it turns out, I couldn't even take ITB for their signed contract.

Be careful, kids. ITB has not honored their contract with several other performers and me. ITB has and may again decide what the contract means AFTER you have committed. Imagine yourself reasoning with this agency if someone pulls this again. And if they honor your contract, thank me for bringing so much attention to their unaccountability.
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Old 11-25-02, 03:36 AM   #13
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Just to clarify:

Do the performers not have the agents sign a contract written by the performer's lawyer?

If not; isn't that extremely naive?

You sign mine, I'll sign yours. My lawyer sees both. Simple. No one gets screwed, well, less often [img]wink.gif[/img]

Just my thoughts, good luck with the shows.

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Old 11-25-02, 02:07 PM   #14
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Hi Sean,

ITB has always honored their contracts with me. They've treated me with respect, worked with me and made changes within their company and with their clients to suit my needs. I have always treated them with respect and maybe this is why I've been able to get the results with them that I, and others, have had.


I heard a LOT of things about you and your show from the people you worked with that weren't exactly on the moral high ground that you are trying to take right now. I heard you were a friendless ass hole that would grope underage Welsh girls from the audience backstage. I heard your show stunk and cleared the room ("Clappy-clappy, kids! Clappy-clappy!"). I heard how you gave off the attitude that you were just better than everyone else so they can all fuck off and kiss your ass.


Bourne Leisure employs HUNDREDS of performers every year, and out of all that only 12 are American. I was one of them and never was I treated as a degenerate immigrant taking away work from proper British citizens. They're not taking advantage of anyone because they are "foreign" and I find this insinuation to be insultingly stupid.


The cars were insured Sean, against minor damage-- not $2541! How the hell did you guys fuck up a car so badly in 10 weeks? I've seen the damage reports AND I saw the car the day you brought it back. I was there. I was the one being grilled by Paul Hammond and Thrifty. I was in the UK for two weeks after you left and had to clean up the mess you, Ben and Caitlin made. Your car had a MASSIVE scratch across the hood, the mirror was busted off and it was riddled with dents. Rob Torres is not the reason you were billed.


Was it naive of ITB to think you could handle driving on the left side of the road? Well, you knew what you were getting into and never said you couldn't handle it. I didn't have any problem; nor did the other Americans I have worked with. It took a bit of getting used to, that's all. The hardest thing for me was to shift with my left hand and not my right, but other than that it was fairly easy.


You mention Michelle, your tour manager. I worked with her and found her difficult at times as well, but she wasn't this evil person you make her out to be. She was tough as nails as any good road manager should be. Her job was to get you from one place to the next on time-- not coddle and coax you-- and that's what she did. I worked along side her for six weeks, and although I did not always agree with her "style," I can say that she always did her job well.


One of Michelle's many quirks was that she was addicted to Coronation Street, Eastenders, Neighbors, Crossroads, and every other lame soap opera-- she drove fast because she needed her telly. She could also handle the roads damn well-- maybe you never noticed but people in the UK and Europe drive a LOT faster than Americans. Partly because they are insane, partly because there are no patrol cars hiding behind bushes. (Police cars are floresent yellow and blue! You can spot them a mile away on a foggy night). Europeans have less problems with those windy roads because they've driven them all their lives and are used to them. They don't feel claustrophobic if there isn't a shoulder on the side of the road as wide a car. Personally, I was impressed by the way she handled the roads.


Yeah, she had an accicdent and crashed her tour van. Accidents happen-- what's the statistic? One in three people get into a car wreck sometime in their life. She said, "the insurance will pay for it" as a way of trying to keep cool and blow it all off. That was her nature-- to act as if she didn't care about a damn thing because she would not want to appear vunerable or out of control in any way. I can tell you now that she did, in fact take a financial loss from that accident. You condemn her for never talking freely to you about her problems, by why would she open herself up to someone who hated her?

In any event, there are no more touring vans on this job. There are no more performers who are difficult to work with either. The job has changed drastically from what it was and it gave me what my career needed at that time. I was able to make the transition from walk around entertainer and street performer to stage act. I can thank Bourne Leisure and ITB for taking the chance on me. Some performers were able to rise to the occasion, others clearly were not.

Good luck with your show, and I hope you have a successful December and 2003.

Etienne


p.s. Thom, my lawyer ratified my contracts and we made MANY changes and added on an extensive and specific rider.
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Old 11-25-02, 04:51 PM   #15
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Um, you know, if anyone ever wants to get any bookings off of this site, you guys might want to move this discussion off of the "Gigs" thread, what with the public access an all...

Just a thought.

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Old 11-25-02, 05:17 PM   #16
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