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Old 02-02-01, 05:04 PM   #21
Vantage
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The mac hardware is of a better design. The problem has always been with the Operating System. That has now been solved with the move to OS-X. OS-X is a Birkley Unix derived OS and very powerfull. Once mac has started disribution of a non BETA version of OS-X i am getting ons of those cool dual 500s.
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Old 02-05-01, 07:43 AM   #22
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yes yes Mac Rocks,I too own a powerbook and it does everything i need it to,but i do have to say ,Doms machine is a ripper,he is making my new promo tape and not to mention doing a fantastic job.
I really don't know too much about it and i only bought a mac because Tom comet and checkers told me too,but i have to say,mac are definately the innovators as far as graphics,movie editing and asthetics goes.
Cheers folks
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Old 02-28-01, 07:40 PM   #23
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I'm a PC user, but I've never used a Mac. I guess you could say that I'm a Mac luddite.

Whats the compatibilty between Mac's and PC's like. I'm thinking about picking up a mac laptop for work on the road, video, etc, but have this beefed up Pc home system. What's compatibility like between the two systems? Anyone?
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Old 03-02-01, 02:35 PM   #24
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In terms of compatibility, Brian, it's not that easy a question. It's more like, what do you want to do with the two computers?

Mostly, it's about the software, not the hardware. Data is all ultimately 1's and 0's, and since you can create floppies that are readable by both a Mac and a PC, reading the data or moving it from machine to machine is not the problem. Getting the machine to interpret it is. (though I note that for some stupid reason, iMacs, at least the original ones, don't have a floppy drive, making moving the data a serious problem).

If you have the same piece of software on both machines (for example, MS Word for the PC is the original, but you can get MS Word for Mac), then saving a Word file on one and moving it to the other is not a problem, as long as you save the file in the correct format. There are other programs that were made for PC but have a Mac counterpart that also work similarly.

Plus, there are some generic file formats (like the .jpg or .gif format for pictures) that aren't really associated with one particular piece of software - you should have no problem moving files like that back and forth.

However, you may have problems when it comes to moving files for which you have software for one system (say, PC), and not the other. Also, setting up your email so that you can use it from either machine without duplicating mail or dropping mail or stuff like that.

You have my personal email address...feel free to email me for more details, if you like.

Hope that helps...
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Old 03-02-01, 09:04 PM   #25
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Well, my first ever posting on the renewed Performers Net so here goes:

I've worked on PC's since the mid 80's - when windows meant something with glass in it - however 6 months ago I opted to buy an iMac and am pleased I made the change.
Apart from being more stable its much easier to use and a lot more fun, also Macs seems to ignore virtually all viruses out there. It's true that there is much more software for a PC available, but "less is more" has it's virtues: You'll never get totally confused by the sheer choice of software titles, but the choice you do have is nearly always (in my experience) superior in quality.
However saying that, there are times when I want to run certain Windows' Applications that are not made for Mac, which is why I bought a program called Virtual PC along with my iMac. Basically I have a fully functional PC running the Windows OS on my Mac - 2 machines in one. I can run any Windows program, Access PC Networks and Share Files between the PC and Mac by simply dragging and dropping them.

I received a WORD for Mac document a few days ago as an e-mail attachment. Its simply a matter of dragging and dropping the file from my Mac desktop to the Virtual PC desktop and hey presto! I can open it in WORDPAD - with no need for WORD on either system in fact.

I would suggest that anyone who wishes to have the best of both worlds consider the purchase of a Mac and then installing either Virtual PC or SoftWindows, the software costs between USD 60.00 and USD 150.00 depending on whether you want just DOS, Windows 95, 98 or 2000. A small price to pay for getting in essence 2 computers.

As for the lack of floppy drive for the iMac, USB drives are available all over the place and cheap at that - I picked mine up for 125 Dutch Guilders or about USD 60.00 which is not exactly expensive, plus the floppy drive takes what power it needs from the USB cable itself.

At the end of the day it's down to personal choice, I opted for both systems - in one machine.


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Old 08-29-01, 08:48 AM   #26
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As a guy who has spent most of the past 20 years messing with computers and the last 10 working in the field I can say in all honesty that when all the fence pissing is done it makes very little difference.

Both platforms run ALL kinds of software well. Both platforms are easy to use.

All the "creative people use Macs" crap, is mostly just that, crap. Advert. agencies use Macs because they have always used Macs. The reason for this is when the people who selected the boxes were in college, they used Macs.

How do I know this? When I was installing network servers in these places I asked the guy who picked the rigs.

If you were doing video Amiga was the ONLY way to go. Finally, both PC and MAC have caught up with the curve (It only took them 10 years).

As far as PC's being more hardware generic, this is true. You can go find pieces parts for your PC with no problem. You can build your own box damn near Heathkit style by going to any computer show in the country with a pocket full of bills.

To this I say, so what? With computers being so cheap why not just buy one with everything you want? USB works on both platforms (Except Windows NT4, Nice going Bill). This makes pulling your box apart a silly thing to do. You should buy it with the hardware you need.

Software, yup it's true. MILLIONS of software titles for the PC. The BEST games almost always come out for PC first. Everyone writes for the PC.

Again, big deal. I defy anyone to mention a product that they need for the mac that they cant get. Not a brand, but an actual product i.e. Word cruncher, spread sheet, etc.

The Mac runs multiple OS. So does the PC I'm currently running Linux, Winnt 4, and OS2, on this box believe it or not.

Why anyone would want to run windows on a perfectly good Mac is still beyond me. If you wanted Windows you should have bought a PC.

Personally, I'm a PC guy. It's a big part of my job. That is why I made my choice. I can do anything a Mac can do and I can do it just as well. The same can be said about a Mac, an excellent personal computer.

My point is, when it's all said and done, there is usually more said than done.

I know this will tweak some propeller head to the point that he will have to tell me that PCs or MACs are crap. I disagree. I think both platforms are equidistant from Nirvana.

Best,

Dan-
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Old 10-12-01, 07:41 AM   #27
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Good Gosh, you write a perfectly sober piece and there's always someone moaning on about how much they know!

Dear Mr Hustle, personally I don't care if you've had 40 years computer experience. Does it make you better, more experienced or more computer literate than anyone else on the planet or the forum?

And as to your question: "Why anyone would want to run Windows on a perfectly good Mac is beyond me?" shows how much of my piece you've read. To put it bluntly: OS9 + WIN98 on one machine = BEST OF BOTH WORLDS without the cost.
Should I dump my Mac and buy a PC Mr 20 years experience?. If we continue with Mr Hustle's logic I should also discard my car which runs on Petrol and LPG and return to just petrol. Jesus Hustle! Were you born stupid?
Hey, stay off the forum or grow a brain.
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Old 10-12-01, 10:06 AM   #28
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I thought this was a performers site, not a computer advertising agency.

Come on boys so what you've all got all these kinds of computers, So bloody what!
Just use them for what you want them to do and stuff the rest!

Brag, Brag, Brag !

At the end of the day I think you have all forgotten who you really are.

Trevor Rooney
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Old 10-12-01, 12:33 PM   #29
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Actually, I think the topic does belong in such a forum. By the very nature of this forum site, the computer becomes a necessary tool. Many of the performers who post here maintain a web presence and use the Internet to conduct business related to their performing.

In spite of falling prices, the decision to purchase a computer can be a daunting one. Nobody here has money to burn, and if you are not familiar with digital technology, then the computer simply becomes an opaque black box (well, beige actually).

Although I donít agree with Dannyís political rants, he does have a significant point that both Mac and PC platforms have a very broad host of software available to the consumer. Both platforms are widely accepted and both have support and repair outlets.

A major consideration that I tell people when helping them to decide what sort of machine to purchase is to look at the tools they wish to use. Most end users will be using typical office suite tools (word processing, data bases, spreadsheets) and Internet communication software (Web, Email). Any machine, including most hand held computers, and some palms, will support this level of utility.

I would suggest taking a look at your existing software base, if you have one. Buying a machine that runs software that you already own is going to save money. If you are starting from scratch, then look into what compatibility issues might influence your work. If your local print shop is Mac only, then that might be a factor. If your best buddies are all PC guys, then a PC may be a better choice.

Cheaper machines can be had mail order, though if you buy from a local store, you will have closer access to repair if you need it. In my opinion, donít buy from any of the computer super-stores. If you get anything from them, itís caveat emptor. If something goes wrong, you have to talk to the manufacturer, and that is as good as a dead end with the big computer names.

If you want a good computer game platform, like it or not, PCs are it. There are far more sophisticated graphics cards made for gaming on the PC.

If your computer use is limited to tasks that are supported in environments like Virtual PC or SoftWindows, then by all means, use them. They do provide added functionality for many users. But, these environments donít come without costs. Anything emulated in software is going to be slower than hardware. If all you are doing is word processing or file transfers, then this issue is moot. But, donít expect any high-end graphics to be pumped through a PC emulator running on a Mac. Additionally, you are subject to the availability of applicable drivers for any peripheral hardware devices.

If cross platform support were needed, I would recommend purchasing two machines. In the long run, it will serve you cleanly and without that extra level of indirection. You can save a little cash with one monitor and an A/B switch, though with the falling price of monitors, there is little rational for that inconvenience except for wasted desktop real estate.

Good luck. If anyone has any specific computer questions, I would be happy to answer them as best I can.

Steven Ragatz

PS.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Trevor Rooney:
I thought this was a performers site, not a computer advertising agency.
I would point out to TREVOR that posts, in forums, list-serves or newsgroups that are submitted only to comment on the appropriateness of otherís posts, are only adding to the noise and pulling everyone off topic.

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"> At the end of the day I think you have all forgotten who you really are.

Trevor Rooney
By the end of the day, I wish I had forgotten who I was. Thatís what weekends are for.

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Old 04-25-02, 10:11 AM   #30
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[quote]Originally posted by LANCEALOT:
<strong>Good Gosh, you write a perfectly sober piece and there's always someone moaning on about how much they know!
</strong>

I wasn't moaning about how much I know. I was qualifying my knowledge of the topic. I happen to know quite a bit about this one small slice of the world. I was trying to share that, not shove it down anyone's throat.

<strong>
Dear Mr Hustle, personally I don't care if you've had 40 years computer experience. Does it make you better, more experienced or more computer literate than anyone else on the planet or the forum?
</strong>

Better? No. More experienced or computer literate? It could. I never said it made me any better.

<strong>
And as to your question: "Why anyone would want to run Windows on a perfectly good Mac is beyond me?" shows how much of my piece you've read. To put it bluntly: OS9 + WIN98 on one machine = BEST OF BOTH WORLDS without the cost.
</strong>

Actually, this shows how much of my post you read. I wasn't commenting on your post. I was commenting on Jim's original question. Contrary to what yoiu may think Captain paranoia, not everyone is talking about you.

And to go a step further, after extensive testing Win98 runs like shit on a MAC when compared to how it runs on a PC.
<strong>

Should I dump my Mac and buy a PC Mr 20 years experience?.

</strong>

No, if you actually took the time to read my post instead of ranting like an idiot I said BOTH platforms were pretty much same-same.

<strong>
If we continue with Mr Hustle's logic I should also discard my car which runs on Petrol and LPG and return to just petrol. Jesus Hustle! Were you born stupid?
Hey, stay off the forum or grow a brain.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, this is pretty cute as it is YOUR logic moron. I never said this or anything of the kind. You might want to refrain from commenting on the thoughts of others while your head is planted so firmly in your ass. It makes you sound stupid.

Have a nice day [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dan-

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]</p>
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Old 04-25-02, 10:56 AM   #31
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I came back to this thread today because I have changed my opinion, sort of.

To qualify again, by day I am a computer network engineer. I am not bragging, I am stating a fact. For some reason this makes some people go crazy when I say it. I don't know why, but there you have it.

I make most of my living working with computers it is what I do. I work for a software developer therefore am very familiar with almost all OS types and platforms.

I will admit, Most of my time is spent with PCs as most of our servers and workstations are PC based.

But we do have Macs. I even have a Mac SE still on my network and doing a very viable job. It is the oldest box in the joint and still runs like a top.

Anyway, this being said I bet you think I am going to suggest a PC, well it ain't so.

At least five times in the past month I have sent friends out to buy Macs. IMHO they are a sexier computer, far sexier. I love the freaking things. Yet I don't own one, interesting, non?

The plain and simple answer for this is a Mac is what a computer should be, again this is just my opinion. It isn't just a "user friendly" thing it is a "User Useful" issue.

Right out of the box a person who has never spent time if front of a computer can be editing old home videos for his grand kids. This isn't a pipe dream, It is a phone call I made last week.

"Hi Jimmy, how are you? It's Danny."

"Great Danny! This computer is fantastic!"

That's great Jimmy, I'll come over this weekend and show you how to hook your camera into it so you can get that tape made."

"Oh, I'm done with it."

"Huh?"

"Yeah I finished it a coupla' days ago."

"Oh."

"Yeah, but come over this weekend anyway, I burned you a CD with that old Hoagie Charmichal stuff you wanted."

"You did?"

"Oh yeah, this thing is great."

"Okay Jimmy."

If this were a PC it would have taken two weekends, five phone calls, 4 external software packages, and three six packs.

I still can't believe the guy did it, but I saw the tape this past weekend and it looked great. Not to mention the CD he gave me. OH! The guy even burned the video to CD in VCD format so he could keep a copy close and watch it on his DVD player.

I have always liked the Mac, but I never felt (personally)they were "better" until recently. Because there are still some things a PC still has all over a Mac, but to be honest, if I was to buy a new rig today, I wouldn't be getting a Dell, dude.

Just my 2 cents and those who disagree are entitled.

Best,

Dan-


P.S. Please do not confuse this post to mean I think one platform is better than the other in a nuts and bolts sort of way. I just found it interesting that when asked, a guy in my position would be suggesting Macs to his friends over PCs.

We could sit here all day quibble and quabble about how one does this better than that. I intellectually admit they are both fairly similar, and both sides have great arguments.

But when it comes down to what you'd go out and buy for yourself? That is another question all together. For me I'll be running OS10 before I'll run XP.

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]</p>
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Old 04-25-02, 02:13 PM   #32
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Hi all,
I've got to get a new laptop ( mine got nicked!)....
The mac v's pc mmmm? I've read all the stuff on this thread still am unsure, had a pc learnt on a pc....want to do video editing and creative web stuff mainly ....is mac that much better??...what software do I need??....
looking forward to hearing your advice...

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Old 04-25-02, 07:24 PM   #33
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Nick,


The Mac Powerbook g4 is a rectangular mass of
titanium/ wires/ tiny lights/ bells/ whistles
rolled and baked flour/ plants
intricately threaded beads/ feathers/ bells
ground tusks/ ancient rock particles
about as long as frack's cloven penis
about as wide as the web around Lucky's bung

balanced upon a threadbare ponzi scheme called the US economy, and
marketed to perfection in the "think different" niche.

behind the keyboard of this seemingly necessary machine you may produce movies/ film shorts/ promo vids/ web sites/ p.net posts
or maybe just visit a porn site.


(If you're gonna do the posts, write something enjoyable.)

(If you're gonna make the promo vid, listen to MTV, do it in 4 minutes or LESS)

(If you're gonna go to the porn site, use an hanky.)

Anyway ...

If you can tease these keys into something approximating 3500 US worth of value and throw in the joy that can only come of excessive consumerism and manage to avoid having the new one nicked,

then pat yourself on the back.
you've got a g4
you're no longer normal.
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Old 04-25-02, 08:04 PM   #34
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I use a pc, and don't have too much experience with macs, but if I was buying again, I'd look at getting a mac.

The multimedia software is available for both, and works the same on each. I'm pretty sure the mac is a whole lot easier to use, but maybe more difficult to trouble shoot when there's a problem?

Macs have been better for multimedia work in the past, but as far as I can tell PCs have caught up, and now it's just a matter of deciding what flavour you prefer.

I imagine that if you don't know much about computers, or don't want to learn, then the mac is the way to go - user friendly.

So, I'm sounding very pro mac... but I still prefer the PC.
I'm not sure I can tell you why...just familiarity, I guess.

Nick, I know Fergus and Rowan have just bought an ibook, so they might be good to talk to.

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: kim ]</p>
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Old 04-25-02, 09:29 PM   #35
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Nickyboy,
As you know I'd set you up Mac wise whatever your needs ... but you gotta get a later model (ibook G3 or better) to do the things you mentioned... I have an old 5300 powerbook (Mac) that I can toss your way if you wanna make up your mind ... but it'll only show you how easy a ride it is ... it won't do all the editing stuff but it could help you decided which way to go
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Old 04-25-02, 09:58 PM   #36
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Mine is not an entirely unbiased opinion: I hate both PCs and Macs (for different reasons.) I stick by my earlier post on this thread, and given your short wish list, and unless you have some other impetus to do otherwise, I would recommend a Mac.

Make sure that the model you are interested in has sufficient software to do the level of video editing that you wish to create. I do not know sophistication of the I-Movie software that ships with the I-Macs, so you should check into it to see if it will fulfil your needs.

I will offer some brief information about inline editing, that is, the process of taking raw digital footage into the computer, modifying it, and spewing it out the other end. If anyone else on the board has some more accurate information, feel free to contradict me:

If you want to make promotional tapes, then there will be additional hardware required (independent of the platform you choose) to get the digital video to tape. Although many graphic cards have TV out (S-video) ports, the graphics quality on these are probably not good enough for a promo tape. To get "broadcast quality" one must have dedicated hardware to convert the digital information to the analog signal that your VCR needs. A card to do the conversion could cost anywhere from a few hundred, to thousands depending on the fidelity.

Typically, you get the raw footage into the computer from your digital camera via a fire-wire port. These ports are standard on most desktop computers and digital video cameras these days. But, if you already have a camera, then you should make sure that it will be compatible with your new computer.

If you are wishing to take your video to the web, and you want to prepare it yourself, then there will be extra expense in a good compression codec to prepare the digital movie for the internet. Although one can post movies in their native format, few viewers will be willing to download movies that are more than a few Megs. Raw digital data straight from the camera can be hundreds of Megabytes for only a few short minutes of footage. That's why you need some sort of compression software. As far as I know, the current codec of choice for the web is still Sorenson (4?). This software works in conjunction with your editing software, so you will have to add another $500 USD for this addition. Check to make sure that it is compatible with your editing software. Now, there are other compression codecs available, but I am not familiar with any of the others, so that is something else to investigate.

If you are doing lots of movies, then you should probably look into something like Media Cleaner Pro. Another grand, but it has batch processing abilities that are invaluable for processing lots of footage.

As I have posted before, if you have only a handful of web videos to produce, it would be cheaper, and faster, to simply take them to a digital house and have someone else prep them. You can do all of the editing on your machine and simply supply them with the uncompressed source.

Another consideration for web video is whether or not wish to provide streaming. From the Mac side, Sorenson and Quicktime are probably your best combination. Quicktime Pro runs a few hundred. But remember all you Mac users out there, like it or not, PCs make up better than %90 of all desktops, and Quicktime is not standard issue on them like it is on Macs. The user will have to download the free software, and install it. It's a pain, but an expectable FOL none the less.

For serious inline editing, Apple's Final Cut Pro, or Adobe's Premier are very popular packages. They are fairly intense, and there is a steep learning curve, but they are very powerful. They don't run cheap, $1k and about $600 USD respectively.

So, if you want to do a few some video clips to the web, I would suggest getting a Mac that ships with I-Movie (or the equivalent), and a digital video camera. Upload your video, edit it, then take the raw footage to a digital house and have it prepped for web. If you are going to do allot of web video, then go with a high end Mac , and be prepared to have to add both software and hardware. Of course, once you are done, you can put out your shingle and web prep digital video for the rest of us! If you want to do inline editing to tape, then you are on your own and you had better have a big hat full 'o cash...

There are many Mac people on p-net, so I suspect that you could get some helpful support here.

Good luck, and let us all know how it goes.

Steve

PS. If you are going to spend lots of time working with video, you should consider getting two monitors. It is cheaper that one big one and typically provides more screen space to work. Your editing software will want you to have timeline windows, clip windows, and output windows all opened at once, so you will want that extra space to work.
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Old 04-25-02, 10:03 PM   #37
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Kim's right. You really can do video editing on both platforms. Right now, though, Final Cut Pro (Apple) for video editing is kicking the pants off anything PC oriented. It's a wicked program for the price.

You could almost comfortably do video editing on an iBook (under $1200-1800 US.) But a PowerBook ($2500-3500US) would make things WAY faster. Other than video editing, both types of Apple computers would feel virtually the same for basic browsing, email, writing, light Photoshopping, etc. If you plan on doing a LOT of video editing, go with a PowerBook, but if you only plan to pump out a promo tape for yourself once a year, an iBook should do fine.

I have no idea what a comparable PC would cost... probably a bit less, but then again, Apples have tons more sex appeal.

GET A FREAKIN' MAC.

Jim
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Old 04-25-02, 10:29 PM   #38
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Regarding Steven's Post...

An iBook ships with iMovie, which has everything you need to produce either web or high quality tape videos.

1. Get a digital video camera with Firewire ( Canon and Sony both have great cameras under $1000.)

2. Get an iBook ($1200-1800) (Ships with iMovie2 - Free)

3. Shoot video.

4. Plug Firewire camera into iBook.

5. iMovie automatically launches and you edit your movie with virtually NO learning curve. (It's the simplest and most fun Apple program I've ever used.) You even control your camera remotely with iMovie's controls. You don't have to touch your camera except to change tapes.

6. Save your iMovie and decide whether you want to put it on the web or have it duped at a tape copying house.

7. To put it on the web, Export as a Quicktime movie (This is the hardest step because you need to tweak settings to optimize your footage for compression. It takes a few tries, but even the pre-set settings look decent.) Upload completed, compressed movie to your web page.

8. To have your movie duped to tape, it's even easier... Re-connect your Firewire camera to your iBook and put in a blank DV tape. Select "Export to Tape" and iMovie will copy your completed project to the tape in your digital camera. You then take this "Master" copy to a tape duping house and pay $2-3 dollars a copy for VHS tapes. The tape duping house will thank you for having your master tape on DV. And you'll be happy because you shot digitally, edited digitally, exported to Digital tape with no generational loss of quality in the editing process.

To see what iMovie can do, I edited the movie below in a day and a half after plugging in my new computer for the first time. I had never used iMovie before and never edited anything digitally before. I did it myself completely with iMovie and my Mac, exported it to Quicktime and put it on my web site literally in under one weekend.

http://www.thejimshow.com/what/jimshow_modem.html - 3.4MB
http://www.thejimshow.com/what/jimshow_broadband.html - 10.8MB

And I don't even work for Apple. I should get some kind of endorsement deal.
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Old 04-26-02, 09:44 AM   #39
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[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Taxi Trix:
<strong>
balanced upon a threadbare ponzi scheme called the US economy,
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know Taxi, it's really not cool to compare the US Economy to what Charlie Ponzi did. When Ponzi bilked those people it was wrong. The US Government...er..well they...ahhh..

Crap.

Let's just forget I opened my mouth huh? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Best,

Dan-

(Great post BTW)
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Old 04-26-02, 12:24 PM   #40
Danny Hustle
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This is an interesting article that helps you make the jump in either direction..

http://www.cnet.com/software/0-429669-8-9723010-1.html
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