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Old 09-29-01, 06:52 AM   #1
AJJames
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Question did you know?

I saw this documentary last night called "unreported world", and thought some of you might want to hear what it had to say,
in everybody's mobile phone is a radio-active mineral called "cotan"( not sure if that's how it's spelt)
this mineral is very rare and mining exists only in the congo, certain areas in the congo especially around the cotan mines are controlled by war-lords who control the mining by military force.
That's the bare bones of it , the grusome details are left to the imagination, due to the lack of press coverage on the situation.
What it means is, you get to look cool and call your girl-friend on the pitch, meanwhile children in the congo are working in radio-active mines for scraps of food, babys are being born with malformities.
There's no reason why we shouldn't embrace technology but we should be prepared to pay a higher price to ensure that mining is safe and working standards are fair. Companies like Ericson should be accountable regarding how they aquire there product components.
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Old 10-08-01, 03:00 AM   #2
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In Feb. 2000 the United Nations proposed to set up a commitee to attempt to differentiate between acts of "Terrorism" and genuine acts of "Freedom Fighting" (Inn. 4022. 2.00) It was an attempt to find the legal language to define both terms. It was not in the commitee's brief to tackle any specific conflicts but to try and set a legal standard that would differentiate between " legitimate acts of rebellion or war" and outright crime.
The only two members to vote against this innitiative were Israel and the US (even Russia, France, China and Sth Africa voted fror it), and, of course, the US exercised it's powers of veto and the bill was quashed.
Why, you might ask? Because 27 foreign incursions by US forces since 1990 would be declared illegal and a staggering 314 by Israeli forces. The commitee might have recognised the rights of the Palestinians to protect their homes or Iraqis to go about their business or raise their children in peace. It is obvious to the rest of the world that it is beyond US understanding that many people have genuine grievences against it's policies and actions.
Will US forces bomb Boston, known to all as the financiers of the IRA, will the US bomb Oklahoma because of the support offered to McViegh? Of course not, but Bin Laden like McViegh and other criminals should be bought to court, not be an excuse for the US to declare war on another country (the bombing started today and I wonder whether war has been properly declared or is this just another police action, a la Saigon and Vietnam). When 6000 people died at Bophal, America did not even think that Union Carbide (the US based company responsible) needed to face charges.
The US fight against terrorism would be farcical if it wasn't for the death toll it will engender. The moral stance and self-justification is sickening to some of us who live in the rest of the world. The earth is a big place and America is only part of it. The US attitude reminds me of a recalcitrant adolescent who says, "It's not me that is fucked up, it's everbody else."

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Old 10-10-01, 12:14 PM   #3
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One Tomahawk cruise missile costs $600,000
The USA are currently deploying 50 per night.
Stealth bomber -$1.3 billion
B52 -$74 million
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Old 10-10-01, 05:06 PM   #4
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One Tomahawk cruise missile ... $600,000
Stealth bomber ... $1.3 billion
B52 ... $74 million


Bringing an end to a terrorist regime... priceless.

For everything else, there's raising taxes...
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Old 10-11-01, 08:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by AJJames:
One Tomahawk cruise missile costs $600,000
The USA are currently deploying 50 per night.
Stealth bomber -$1.3 billion
B52 -$74 million

They also provide good paying jobs for thousands of Americans.
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Old 10-11-01, 03:14 PM   #6
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"They also provide good paying jobs for thousands of Americans."

As do people who fly planes into buildings.
Not much of an argument.
I'm all up for a robust exchange of views between people who's opinions, quite realistically, will never change.
Its interesting (sort of) to watch the ego's clash like adolescent bucks in rutting season. (mine included-sorry everyone)
And for those directly affected its a free form of therapy as they vent and howl and snipe.
We have a broad range of political opinion but what's uniting us, whether we like it or not, is the sudden acceleration of change.
As street performers we are lucky in that our mindsets are adaptive almost by definition.
Hopefully we'll be the last people to lose our senses of humour.
(gathering in groups laughing amongst ourselves) thankfully no change there.



[This message has been edited by martin ewen (edited 10-11-2001).]
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Old 10-12-01, 08:26 AM   #7
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[quote]Originally posted by martin ewen:
"They also provide good paying jobs for thousands of Americans."

As do people who fly planes into buildings.
Not much of an argument.


Okay, back that one up. I want you to explain to me how flying planes into buildings has provided thousands of jobs and helped the American economy?

here's the short answer, you can't. You are just another bigoted, hate filled, American bashing, sad sack.

The only thing that makes guys like you feel good is to take advantage of the pain and suffering of others. I feel sorry for you, it must be quite a pathetic life.


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Old 10-12-01, 09:24 AM   #8
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Without putting words into Martin's mouth Danny, I think he was referring to (possibly among other things) the fact that there is massive clean-up and subsequent re-building taking place in an urban area previously occupied, hence, a creation of certain kinds of jobs, however unpleasant, after the disaster. Just like the firing (and destruction) of a missile makes almost certain that another will be made to replace it, guaranteeing another type of occupation, however unpleasant, which I believe was one of your points.

Tit for tat. You both score, but how does that help prevent this from happening again, I wonder?
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Old 10-12-01, 11:15 AM   #9
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THis is the probl;em with all you guys, some-one starts a topic about something, Say Aj on this forum then it turns into costs of missiles and such shit.

At the end of the day what all this means is that the world is a pretty f....d up place
when performers using this site have nothing else to talk about apart from these issues that we can bombard ourselves with on BBC news or C.N.N.

NOne of us including the public have any say in the matter and no matter how you rant on about it all the world will still come to an end one day, and it will probably be faster that you think it might be.

Trevor Rooney

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Old 10-12-01, 12:15 PM   #10
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I think the main point Martin is making is a good one.
I do a good deal of Information Security work. I feel horrible about Sept. 11th but I also have to admit that I am getting work from it. People have become paranoid, possibly for good reason, and people are making money from it.
This shows how adaptable our culture is but also tells us that things that make us money aren't necessarily good things. People may get jobs and make money building bombs and bombers but that doesn't make the bombing right.
This is not to say that the bombing is wrong. I leave that to your personal opinion. Just that the jobs certainly don't come close to justifying it.
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Old 10-12-01, 03:02 PM   #11
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..

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-12-2001).]
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Old 10-12-01, 03:07 PM   #12
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I think that sound I hear is the nail being hit on the head. Great thoughts Trevor, thanks.

Regards,

Dan-

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Trevor Rooney:
THis is the probl;em with all you guys, some-one starts a topic about something, Say Aj on this forum then it turns into costs of missiles and such shit.

At the end of the day what all this means is that the world is a pretty f....d up place
when performers using this site have nothing else to talk about apart from these issues that we can bombard ourselves with on BBC news or C.N.N.

NOne of us including the public have any say in the matter and no matter how you rant on about it all the world will still come to an end one day, and it will probably be faster that you think it might be.

Trevor Rooney

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Old 10-12-01, 08:37 PM   #13
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Thank you Danny for that one.

It will come one day, for sure!

Trevor Rooney

" Then there will be no electricity "
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Old 10-13-01, 05:50 AM   #14
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this thread was supposed to be for information not opinion.
That aside , thanks to everyone for their contribution.
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Old 10-13-01, 11:28 AM   #15
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It's OK AJ. if people stuck to your original topic it would have been ok, but they just have to bring on the American thing cos there seems to be nothing else to talk about these days.

The whole world is sinister, I just wonder how many of the guys who write on this site have ever really seen any of the real stuff that's out there.

Ah well every-one to their own, I suppose?

Trevor

PS: Everything that is bad is bad!

War is peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is strength

Hows that for three lines, I think that one puts the nail in the coffin.

[This message has been edited by Trevor Rooney (edited 10-13-2001).]
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Old 10-15-01, 09:26 AM   #16
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[quote]Originally posted by Trevor Rooney:
War is peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is strength



Just call me Winston..

[This message has been edited by Danny Hustle (edited 10-15-2001).]
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Old 11-30-01, 04:35 AM   #17
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Despite the terror...
Some Americans find strength in truth,and search for peace in a monopolar world.What ever happened to the idea of national sovereignty and the rest of the International war conventions?Why are we north americans rapidly losing our civil rights? Are they even rights when they can be taken away at whim by the powerful?
Anyways,bear in mind that I love the American people.I have no love for their non-representative,anti-democratic government(the % of eligible voters in US elections is known do dip below the 50% mark).
Can't understand why they hate us?
Some of them can't distinguish between people and government.When their relatives die due to imperial ambition some can't distinguish you and I from the tiny group of North American madmen that pressed the button,gave the order,pulled the trigger.
Sounds like some of us can't tell the difference either.
Here's 1% of why they hate us.
The US Army School of the Americas has been the center of a storm of controversy for nearly two decades. This training center for Latin American military has turned out more than 60,000 soldiers. Its graduates have been linked to nearly every major human rights violation that has occurred in Latin America since the school’s inception 50 years ago. As the public learned that SOA graduates were responsible for the assassination of President Salvadore Allende,President Jacobo Arbenz,Archbishop Romero,Che Guevara,the Jesuit massacre and countless other atrocities, a tremendous grassroots movement to close the school developed. In 1999, a budget amendment cutting funds to the school passed the House by 30 votes. It lost by a one-vote margin in a House-Senate conference committee. The Pentagon took this threat very seriously and in 2000 introduced a "reform" package changing the name of the school to the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Critics were not fooled by this PR campaign and the movement to close the School of Assassins continues. ...

read more talking points at soaw.org

INCREASE THE PEACE
UP WITH LOGIC AND MEMORY - DOWN WITH HISTORICAL AMNESIA
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Old 11-30-01, 05:11 AM   #18
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Please,anyone wanting to launch personal attacks on me for my views ---post that shit in the bla bla bla forum.
In the heat of the battle of ideas,no 1 should come to a gunfight with a rusty butterknife.

Peter has done his homework and I salute him..AJ is spreading info that's rarely allowed to be heard.Neither of them are acusing anyone of anything,just speaking about widely known public knolege that shouldn't be seditious in a free country.
I can't believe that the Americans who died in and around the towers would have wanted their deaths to be used as a pretext for the murder of innocent civilians,or as an excuse to destroy the civil,labour, and human rights that so many fought so hard and long to achieve.Here in Canada this tragedy has/is being used as a distraction/pretext to
a)reduce minimum wage by 25% for one sector of the workforce in my province(done)
b)end the socialized eye exams formerly available to all Canadians.(done)
c)introduce secret military courts sans jury or counsel,which are a staple of all the dictatorships in the world.(pending)
d)effectively end the right to strike by defining wildcat strikers as terrorists.(pending)
e)dismantle our socialized health care
system.(almost done)

What are they trying to pull on y'all to the south of us?


Debates are a great teacher
for all that seriously try to join in and share their views.
Down with war & racism. Up with justice and peace.Not the peace of death, but a peace of justice, mutual respect & development.We have to take care of our own before we can consider international adventures.I'm speaking of both our governments here.
-jonny
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Old 12-01-01, 03:29 AM   #19
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Don't know how to break this to you, Jonny, but you ARE in the "blah, blah, blah" section.

ps: who's attacking your views? I missed that part; all I see are two of your own posts on top of each other...
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Old 12-01-01, 05:20 PM   #20
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Woops,missed my ( sign.
Should have read:
"Please,anyone wanting to launch personal attacks on me for my views ---post that shit in the bla bla bla forum:"
Thanks,chance


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