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Old 03-05-03, 04:47 PM   #1
Richard
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Post Help Me Pick Out A New Computer.

It’s time to buy a new computer and I’m debating between Mac and PC. I want a Mac for its use in updating my website, photo shop, video editing, etc. My wife wants a PC for all the programs like Quicken, Quick Books, Excel, Word, etc. Of course all my non performing friends tell me PC is the way to go for the fact that almost every thing is compatible, you can do almost all the same stuff, and they’re easier to find tech service for. Can you do everything on a PC that you can do on a Mac? Should I just buy a Powerbook and call it good? Any other recommendations? I’m more important than my wife so I get what I want first. Besides she never reads these posts and I'll impress her if I act like I know what I'm talking about.
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Old 03-05-03, 06:20 PM   #2
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Check out:

Mac or PC?

Done there, been that.

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Old 03-05-03, 08:08 PM   #3
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[quote]Originally posted by Richard:
<strong>My wife wants a PC for all the programs like Quicken, Quick Books, Excel, Word, etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>

These applications are all available for Mac. And they're prettier on the Mac.

[quote]Originally posted by Richard:
<strong>Of course all my non performing friends tell me PC is the way to go for the fact that almost every thing is compatible, you can do almost all the same stuff....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not sure what you mean by "everything is compatible" but these days Macs and PCs each use USB and Firewire peripherals so most stuff you buy to plug in (printers, scanners, cameras, etc.) will work on either type of machine. You may have to download Mac drivers if you want to use your existing printer on a Mac, but the hardware is all pretty much cross-platform now.

[quote]Originally posted by Richard:
<strong>PCs... easier to find tech service for.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's because with a PC, you will NEED tech support! Mac users require far less tech support over the life of their machines.

[quote]Originally posted by Richard:
<strong>Can you do everything on a PC that you can do on a Mac?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe not everything (speaking in grand terms), but you will definitely be able to do everything you would NEED to do on a Mac. And with a Mac, you will be able to do things you CAN'T do on a PC... especially you, Richard. You'll have a ball with iMovie.

I'm so tired of people saying that they won't use a Mac because there are more programs available for the PC... How many programs do you need? On a daily basis, I probably use 5 applications. In a week, I may use 10 different programs. And of those 10 programs, 4 or 5 of them are Mac-ONLY apps! There is nothing available for the PC that I actually NEED that I can't get for the Mac. And many Mac versions of programs are far more elegant and simple to use than their PC versions.

Get a Mac, dude. The new Powerbooks are sweet. If you don't need the portability, get a 17" iMac. You're wife will love it.
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Old 03-05-03, 09:08 PM   #4
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Yes, but if you get a Macintosh, you will have to join the ranks of Mac users who always feel compelled to defend their platform of choice by spewing forth the same Mac rhetoric that they've touted for the past twenty years. I own both, work on both, and hate both Mac and PC equally. But, I do have a personal aversion to Mac users who preach!

Since Jim has chosen to taught the Apple of his eye, I will choose to be PC. My first argument is:

%90 of all desktops are PC based machines running a version of Microsoft Windows.

That right there is a pretty convincing argument if you are using your computer for business.

My second argument is:

PCs are cheaper.

This one isn't as compelling as the first because it is difficult to compare Apples to Oranges, or for that matter, to PCs. But if one had to make a generalization across the entire product line, PCs are cheaper.

I could go on, or I could switch sides and convince you that a Mac is the tool of the trade. A telling question for me is what machine are you already familiar with? If you already own a suite of applications for PC, then switching will mean that you must purchase the software all over again. Even though the hardware for both platforms is fairly cheap, software prices are still daunting, and may prove to be the determining factor.

More to the point, I would think that anyone who says "I'm more important than my wife so I get what I want first." had better choose their computer carefully because they may not only be working on that computer but they may be having to share the couch with it as well.

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Old 03-05-03, 09:46 PM   #5
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The couch has its advantages.
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Old 03-05-03, 10:40 PM   #6
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[quote]Originally posted by Steven Ragatz:
<strong>Yes, but if you get a Macintosh, you will have to join the ranks of Mac users who always feel compelled to defend their platform of choice by spewing forth the same Mac rhetoric that they've touted for the past twenty years. I own both, work on both, and hate both Mac and PC equally. But, I do have a personal aversion to Mac users who preach!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry I didn't think I was 'preaching.' I just got a little excited there. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Steven, what do you hate about the Mac platform so much? I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm actually curious. (Really.)


[quote]Originally posted by Steven Ragatz:
<strong>
%90 of all desktops are PC based machines running a version of Microsoft Windows.

That right there is a pretty convincing argument if you are using your computer for business.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Agreed, but I don't believe Richard is planning on networking his computer with the mainframe down at Fidelity or using it for point of sale transactions at a store. He's going to be editing promo videos, creating invoices and contracts, doing his taxes and emailing pics of the kids to his parents... all things that are possible on a three year old iMac running OS 9.

Just because 90% of the world uses PCs doesn't mean he should. &lt;kidding&gt;If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?&lt;/kidding [img]wink.gif[/img] &gt;


[quote]Originally posted by Steven Ragatz:
<strong>My second argument is:

PCs are cheaper.

This one isn't as compelling as the first because it is difficult to compare Apples to Oranges, or for that matter, to PCs. But if one had to make a generalization across the entire product line, PCs are cheaper.

I could go on, or I could switch sides and convince you that a Mac is the tool of the trade. A telling question for me is what machine are you already familiar with? If you already own a suite of applications for PC, then switching will mean that you must purchase the software all over again. Even though the hardware for both platforms is fairly cheap, software prices are still daunting, and may prove to be the determining factor.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


Steven, you have a good point about the software... If Richard already has PC versions of Photoshop, Premier, Illustrator, etc. he'd have to re-purchase (or re-acquire) them for the Mac. And that could be more expensive than the price of the computer.

&lt;preaching&gt;However, iMovie is all he'd need for video editing and it's free.&lt;/preaching&gt;

&lt;speculating&gt;And AppleWorks is rumored to be totally rebuilt and released later this year in an effort to go head-to-head with Microsoft Office. Once it's released, it will probably be free on new Macs or in the $50 range to buy separately.&lt;/speculating&gt;

&lt;preaching&gt; As for the cost of the BOX itself, a Mac may be more expensive to begin with, but it will probably remain useful and relevant longer than a comparable PC. I bought my G4/400 just over 2 years ago for $1200. I could sell it on eBay tomorrow for over $600. (Try selling a 2 year old PC for half of the initial cost.) I expect it to remain useful to me for at least two more years. And then I could probably sell it for over $300! &lt;/preaching&gt;


OK. I'll stop now. <img src="graemlins/square.gif" border="0" alt="[square smile]" />
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Old 03-06-03, 12:53 AM   #7
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Richard,

I've met you and your wife... Do what she says if you value your testicles.


étienne
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Old 03-06-03, 01:53 AM   #8
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Check out the Sony Vaio Digital Studio series. Great for movie, video making and very reliable. Lots of other useful programs already installed.
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Old 03-06-03, 08:43 AM   #9
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I work in the computer industry by day. I am surrounded by PCs. I support PCs and the hideous operating systems and applications that Microsoft has inflicted upon me. When I go home at night, tired, beaten, and generally pissed off at every beige box on the face of the planet, I will get at least one phone call from a “friend”.

“Dan, I’m getting an error in MS Access that says, “can’t find installable ISAM”.

Or

“Dan, I just installed the Roxio EZ CD Creator 3.5 on my Windows 2000 machine and now it gives me the blue screen of death.”

Or…or..or..ad nausium.

I hate these people. Every last god damned one of them. I hate them like poison.

The reason I hate them is because I just flashed the BIOS on my PC after a processor upgrade so I could download a better grade of porn and now MY PC won’t boot. But they don’t give a shit. Mary wants MS Access to run so that she can catalog her porn. Mike needs his CD burner so he can hide his porn from his missus.

My only MAC phone call was from a guy who had never owned a computer and needed help editing his home movies in iMovie. He called me back a day or two later and told me to forget it. He figured it out himself.

So, for heaven’s snakes buy a MAC, please, I’m begging you here, honest, you won’t be sorry.

Best,

Dan-

[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: Danny Hustle ]</p>
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Old 03-06-03, 09:01 AM   #10
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Jim:
[quote]Steven, what do you hate about the Mac platform so much? I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm actually curious. (Really.)<hr></blockquote>

What I don't like about Macs:

First, and foremost, they're different than PCs. Even without a "better" or "worse" label, different means having to do more to get them to cooperate with the rest of the computers that dominate the market. The Macs are different in several ways that require consideration. Of the top of my head:

File structure (data fork/resource fork)
Display's gamma correction (Macs are darker)
Cross platform software tends to be slightly behind the PC's current version
&lt;CR&gt;&lt;LF&gt;
Disk format

When I have to deal with Macs, I not only have to think about the global issues of all Macs, but specific ones as well. In particular, those I-Mac beasts:

No floppy drive
Fixed monitor (if it breaks, your entire computer must be sent in)
Very limited expandability
Can't have multiple monitors
Can't read cd-cards (caddyless CD tray)
Unpleasant mouse/keyboard

The Mac also deals with IP addressing in a different way that isn't supported by my local ISP. If I wanted to have a DSL connection for my mac, it would cost extra each month because the Macs don't deal with dynamic addressing in a way that conforms to the ISP's protocol. I don't know who's to fault, but the fact that it is different makes for yet another obstacle.

Programming these beasts is difficult, even back in the system 6/7 days. The "Inside Macintosh" series took up an entire bookshelf with technical notes and library calls that had to be done in cryptic and magical ways.

Now, I have not even addressed the OS X compatibility issues. AAAAhhh!

I understand that technology must move forward, and as such, older technology must at some point be left behind. But, when you are trying to make sure that what you distribute can run on the end users box, the Mac line adds significant hurdles. There are the Motorola machines, then there are the PowerPC machines, and now there are the OSX generation machines to deal with. Granted, there are several versions of Windows that have similar issues, but the hardware is far more backwards compatible on the PC side. I have an "old" G3 at home. It no longer has a serial port that all of the Macs before it came standard. My personal LaserWriter (and Apple product!) printer won't even plug into it. Look on the back of my PC and you will see firewire and USB, but you will also see the good old serial port and the parallel port. That dot matrix printer sitting in the back of the closet will still work with the newest P6.

Mac users like the look and feel. There isn't any reason that the structures underneath the hood couldn't have been engineered in a way that interfaced with the rest of the world while maintaining the aesthetics that Apple promotes so dearly.

Finally, my greatest peeve isn't with the Mac itself, but with the Mac-o-phile users who pledge their soul and speak so passionately about their purchase as if they had some hand in the engineering. I look upon Mac users who insist on bragging about their OS of choice the same way I would look upon someone who brags that their breasts are bigger because they drink Pepsi. Apple says: "Think different" I say "Think incompatible."

That said, I could create a list of "Why I hate PCs" just as easily.

To future buyers: do some research and find out what the people around you use. Consider your existing environment, which may include network issues, existing software issues, and existing peripheral hardware issues, before you succumb to clever advertising campaigns from either camp.

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Old 03-06-03, 01:11 PM   #11
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When did Martin start posting under the name "Steven Ragatz"?
<img src="graemlins/haha.gif" border="0" alt="[ha ha]" />
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Old 03-06-03, 03:10 PM   #12
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Stephon wrote:
[quote]When did Martin start posting under the name "Steven Ragatz"?
<hr></blockquote>

Ouch! What have I ever done to you? Internet bully...

Steven Ragatz

(Bet you typed that message on a Mac!)
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Old 03-06-03, 04:55 PM   #13
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(soothing strains of violin)
Calm yourselves,have a nice cup of tea, forget about your computer, it doesn't matter, they're just a fad. If you have a mac may I just say how groovy I think you are and if you have a PC and are snuggling up to the dark overlord along with the 95% of the population who just can't face the fact that their operating systems are riddled with security flaws, pointless blogware, sneaky spyware and upgrades that cost big bucks and are designed to be manditory, well thats OK too.
Be like me, be serene, be uneffected by the fact that your very name becomes a byword for insulting behaviour.
(wow these anti deppressants pills kick arse)
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Old 03-06-03, 05:11 PM   #14
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Which is better Republicans or Democrats?
Everyone's got some really good points but I like what Steven said about Mac users preaching about their Mac's. That's got to mean something's good about them.
Taxi, what advantages does the couch have? Except watching TV late and drinking beer....I guess those are good ones.
We're leaning toward the 17" Imac. My wife read this post and I still have my testies.
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Old 03-06-03, 05:43 PM   #15
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And of course, there is the history.

Suffice it to say that Mac is the innovative rascal brainchild, PC the pathetic lame overfunded copycat. Apple invented and produced this interface you are using now, whichever you are on. IBM/PC stole it. They settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. For further contemplation, see the c prompt.
Other than that, I have no strong opinions.


Top ten things about being on the couch:

10 No one steals the blankets
#9 the ashtray's right there
#8 its easier to get to the kitchen undetected for a midnight snack.
#7 you preserve the dignity of cleaving to your purpose. *
#6 none of that bothersome "are we going to do it tonight" dilemma.
#5 uncontested remote dictatorship.
#4 many are balled, few are frozen.
#3 if you don't excersize your right to be a single-minded prick, it may
atrophy. (The right, not the prick.)
#2 ummmmm, help me out here...

*(stolen from a New Yorker essay.)
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Old 03-07-03, 07:57 AM   #16
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Taxi: The reason that the law suit didn't go to court was because they both stole it from XEROX. Many people think that Bill Gates is the anti-Christ, but I'll bet Steve Jobs aint no saint neither.

Richard: A 17" i-Mac will do just fine for a home computer to access the Internet, edit promotional material with video, maintain a simple web site and take care of everyday business correspondence. If you have any ties with a local school, you may qualify for academic pricing on hardware and software - a big savings. Best of luck with your new machine.

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Old 03-07-03, 09:39 AM   #17
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[quote]Originally posted by martin ewen:
<strong>be uneffected by the fact that your very name becomes a byword for insulting behaviour.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not insulting, just impassioned, ascerbic and occasionally really pissed off. All good qualities in someone who works with the public.
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Old 03-08-03, 10:16 AM   #18
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My point of view,,,for wot it's worth...
I asked the same question a few months ago.....
I got the answers from the ( our ) people ...
I now have an ibook and it is a lot easier than a wife!
( though I havn't had one of those )
mmmm is that a contradiction in terms?????
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Old 03-08-03, 01:22 PM   #19
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Oi, Nickster. I've had a wife, and my g4 is a whirlworld easier to navigate, but the wife user interface was far more appealing.

Steve, did they really both steal it from xerox? takes a bit of the romance out of it for me. I actually based my initial choice on that story. Well that, and the fact that my ex father-in-law gave my daughter an old mac which worked better than my electric typewriter.
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Old 03-08-03, 09:30 PM   #20
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Taxi:

Where it came from is debatable, but the similarities between the Mac interface and the systems being developed at Xerox were enough to cause the Apple-Microsoft lawsuit problems. There is some interesting history to be found at:

apple history

click on the "Graphical User Interfaces (GUI)" link in the right sub-window.

It's all details that are moot to the end user. However, it is interesting that you sited that the lawsuit was a factor in your decision to go Mac. I have found that most of the avid Mac users I know have a very strong emotional bond with their platform of choice, where as PC people tend to just accept the computer as an appliance. A generalization, but one that points to Apple's brilliant advertising campaigns over the years.

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