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Old 11-07-04, 04:32 PM   #1
Evan Young
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Default photagrapher

A photojournalism student did a project on me this last summer. "A day at work for evan young" type thing. He's a good photographer and got some good shots that would be good to put on my website. I asked him if I could buy the rights to the images and he proposed this:



First, you are totally welcome to any pic's for friends and family, no buying necessary._ It was way cool of you to let me tag along for a few days so giving you some images to share is the least I could do.

If you're thinking of pic's more for ads/portfolio/self-promotion (ie. making money), then I'd like to get something in return. Here's what I've done with some of the rock climbers I've shot: They sign model release so that I can sell the images commercially._ (I do work with a small stock photo agency)._ In return, they get all the photos they want for their own uses: copies for friends and family, self-promotion, web sites, ads and stuff like that._ The main thing is that they don't sell the image and anyone else besides the climber (for example, sponsors or employers) who wants to use it works through me._ This arrangement's kind of nice since cash is usually limited and this allows everyone to come out ahead, no cash involved._ Some people are uncomfortable with signing a release, in which case we can figure something else out.



what do you think? pro's/cons
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Old 11-07-04, 07:06 PM   #2
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I was about to say that this deal is fine, and mutually beneficial, until I noticed this part:

"The main thing is that they don't sell the image and anyone else besides the climber (for example, sponsors or employers) who wants to use it works through me."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what he means, but I'd have him get rid of that part COMPLETELY or no deal.
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Old 11-08-04, 02:23 AM   #3
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He is not being too cool.

Sign the thing and use them if you want but you could become the subject of an ad campain without permission or any extra compensation, or don't sign the thing and if you see those pictures anywhere for any purpose, take action.

I don't like these stock photography things. I think they're bad for all artists involved -- including the souless designers using the photos. I won't sign any of this stuff. I'm guessing the photos aren't much better than satisfactory and I'm sure you can pay for better ones.

I've found that the rule is usually, you pay for good photos. You either take a whole bunch of cheap ones it takes away your time and money on a payment plan, then you finally get a few that are good, or you pay upfront for something good.

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Old 11-08-04, 07:47 AM   #4
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Evan, no contract is "standard". A contract will say what ever you want it to. So if you feel too constrained by the contract offered, feel free to modify his, or even create your own. (This applies to performance contracts as well.) Most importantly, no contract is binding until signed, and until that moment all options are in play.
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Old 11-08-04, 01:57 PM   #5
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well, the photos are good, they really are. they arn't studio promo shots, they are live action street show shots. he came out and photographed my shows for a week trying to get specific images he wanted for his project and he did a good job.

all in all, I figure it would be nice web site content and that's about it. it's not really somthing I want to shell out a bunch of cash for, but they would be nice to have and use.
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Old 11-08-04, 03:51 PM   #6
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Default rules of thumb/ contracts

Regarding contracts:

Keep as many rights as you can.

Negociate prices for services (your or theirs) before the services occur.

The contract is always slanted in favor of the person who wrote it.

If a person balks at signing your contract, they are either unsure of their authority to do so {for their company} OR they are not wanting to get caught. Find out which

Get paid day of show.

If you MUST have a dressing room, soundboard, ten foot ceiling, Pringles - specify it in your rider. But think about MUST.

-D
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Old 11-08-04, 05:04 PM   #7
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Take the deal. Barter rocks.
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Old 11-08-04, 07:06 PM   #8
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Default Awash in a sea of confusion...

This got kind of lost in a torrent p-net babble, so I will reiterate.
The deal is great , it's mutually beneficial, no cash needs to trade hands, all in all a breeze. EXCEPT for the part I mentioned earlier.

"The main thing is that they don't sell the image and anyone else besides the climber (for example, sponsors or employers) who wants to use it works through me."

This is not only complete bullshit (in a way you are losing ownership of your own identity, and it's a soft strongarm maneuvre for more buisiness), but more importantly, it's going to turn into a big pain in the ass. Like so:

A year from now, you are booked for a festival and the promoters say "Alright Evan, do you have some good hi-res photos for our flier/brochure/program/website/etch-a-sketch/wallaby/whatever?"

What this guy's clause is asking you to do at this point is to tell these promoters "Yes, I have some great shots, but you will now have to negotiate with my photographer for the right to use them."

See? That's moronic. Tell him to take out that clause, and the deal is great.

About the stock photo thing, Scot's opinion is one side of the fence, and I understand it, my personal opinion is that if the photo's ever actually DO get used (which is about as likely as O.J. Simpson recieving a Nobel Peace Prize) all it means is that more people see YOU. That's not really all that bad.
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Old 11-09-04, 04:41 AM   #9
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It sounds like a hassle all that terniery distrobution stuff. If you can use it for one thing, you'll want to use it for others too. That makes things easier.

Offer him some money if you really want one of the photos. Money only.

I ditto Eric's last paragraph in a way. I had someone ask to use my photos for stock and they were totally the wrong style for anything useful, plus the photographer was my friend so, I said yes. Look at what stock photos look like. They're used like clipart mostly. If you think the photos suck for that purpose, sign away.

My #1 solution, screw these photos. Get some other people who are passionate about pics to snap you. It will probably be easier.
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Old 11-09-04, 07:08 AM   #10
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Dt. Eric, it's nice if other people see you indeed. But not in a commercial for say, Coca Cola, MacDonalds or any other big ass company that should have the money to pay you. I can tell tou from my own experience, it's not very nice to see yourself turned into a prostitute on the television screen, without getting anything in return. No way I want to see myself blowing a big flame in a Shell Nigeria campaign...

And as for the contract: the guy is a student. He uses you for a project. The least thing he can do is giving you some of those pictures, free for promotional use. Fair enough that you should not sell them commercially, but I don't see why your effort in helping him out, should be exploited commercially on his side either, in any way.
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Old 11-09-04, 02:18 PM   #11
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I'm still chuckling over the likelihood of Coca-Cola browsing through a discount stock photo site, stumbling across pictures of Evan's goofy ass doin' street shows and announcing "That's the face to launch a trillion cans!"
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Old 11-09-04, 02:41 PM   #12
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How about Michael Jackson doing a cheap imitation of my show for a Pepsi commercial?

And what if it goes wrong?

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Old 11-09-04, 05:42 PM   #13
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Now THAT'S ego.
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Old 11-09-04, 06:53 PM   #14
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Too big to carry on as hand luggage.

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Old 11-09-04, 08:56 PM   #15
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Default Damned if you do...

... and too fragile to check.
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Old 11-09-04, 10:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by scot

My #1 solution, screw these photos. Get some other people who are passionate about pics to snap you. It will probably be easier.

ya know, this guy isn't some random 19 year old frat boy at a community or state school. He's in his mid 20's, has an Ivy League past, and I think he's working on a masters or somthing. I have seen some of the pictures and they are what I want specificly for part of my next web design.
I have studio shots ready for promo, but street performing is a major part of what I do; and fans from pearl street acount for most of the traffic on my web site. I want web content for someone who might come back to the site, just for fun. A good photojournalist takes shots that tell a story. This guy might be a student, but he's profesional quality and his project is tells a pretty good story about somthing lots of fans seem to be curious about.
I'm gonna ask to see the actual contract and amend it.
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Old 11-10-04, 03:18 AM   #17
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If the pros outweigh the cons, sign the crap. I don't see why you're even asking.
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Old 11-10-04, 03:48 AM   #18
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Evan, you seem to already have made the decision. If you want the pictures that badly, just take them. Like Dr. Eric pointed out, the risk of "abuse" isn't that big. Indeed, only cheap companies use stock photography...

But, as pointed out earlier in this thread, I think it may be important, to make sure that you'll have the rights to promote your act in general. And that includes publishing them in festival programs and similar publishings.

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Old 11-10-04, 07:21 AM   #19
Evan Young
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I knew I wanted the pictures, I just wasn't sure on how I wanted to get them. So thanks for everyone's advice, I'll see what I can do.
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Old 12-19-04, 09:37 PM   #20
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Ok, well... I really like a couple of these shots. some arn't usable because my costume is too dirty or somthing. Check them out and tell me what you think.
I've decided my marketing target is going to be outdoor events and festivals.

http://homepage.mac.com/globalevan/p...toAlbum14.html

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