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Old 01-24-05, 09:32 PM   #1
Stephon
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Default New Demo video for critique

Hey All-

I just put up a new Pickled Punks Completely Mental Show promo video and would really appreciate any constructive criticism, feedback, or suggestions.

Image quality is so-so, but should be good enough to get an idea of how it's supposed to look.



Thanks!
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Old 01-24-05, 10:01 PM   #2
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It looks like you mess up a lot in your show

There's not enough laughing (make the laughter bleed over from one cut to another.

it's too slow. trim each cut so you just see the important parts. The math trick should be a lot shorter. Cut out repetitive speech (like "right there").

looking physical on video helps alot. Notice how the beginning finger point sticks out and looks good.

the first cut of the wooden snake -- loose it.

If you're going to use the cheesy bubble font, it should be used for "Pickled Punks" Then another, crazier font for "completely mental"

I would start it off with a shot of the the partners. Establish the characters early on.

I imagine your doing it with iMovie. Get rid of as much gimmickry as possible.

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Old 01-24-05, 10:08 PM   #3
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Oh, and your name is gross and it makes me think of side shows and abortions more than mentalism.
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Old 01-24-05, 11:55 PM   #4
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Default It ain't got no PAWP!

Is the show you're selling specifically for schools? If it isn't, film another show. Mostly, I just agree with Scot, it's too long, I couldn't sit all the way through it, and I tried twice. Every clip you have is a joke, which is fine, but your time/funny ratio is off. If a joke ain't that good, it should be fast, and if something has a long buildup, it better be !@#?in' funny. Fading is also slow, audio as well as visual, make it more abrupt, and the video itself will seem to move faster. In addition, NEVER fade an audio track unless it's at the end, fade out=end. Instead of just fading in the name of each section of the show, I'd throw more chaos into those transitions, since that seems to be what you're going for.

Oh yeah. If your partner is going to do the princess card trick with a Si Stebbins deck, he should name the cards OUT OF SEQUENCE!

Scot's right, pickled punks is a crappy name, plus, Frack's troupe calls themselves that now (as well as a couple of others I think). After seeing your video, I think the name "Cheese and Crackers" is quite appropriate...
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Old 01-25-05, 01:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: It ain't got no PAWP!

Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Eric
Scot's right, pickled punks is a crappy name, plus, Frack's troupe calls themselves that now
Nope, Frack's group is known as "The Pickled Brothers." I do agree with Scott and Dr. Eric, there is a better name than "pickled punks."
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Old 01-25-05, 03:50 PM   #6
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Lurk I laughed I cried I died I decomposed

Thats my autobiography out of the way.

Anyway...
Alternatives for pickled punks.
Curdled cheese?
Goo and Oof?
Shameless and Unrepentant?
Gormless and Gormmore?
(I'm not very good at this)

Yep it needs to be up-paced.
The character montage at the start should be the start, the opening as it is involves failure and dissapointment and thats NOT GOODŽ.
Transitions faster.
My opinion is that all prospective clients want to see are moments you create rather than the structures and as such I'd focus more on the moneyshots and less on the whole pieces.
Needs more energy.
Its not bad though, it just could be a lot lot better.
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Old 01-25-05, 04:52 PM   #7
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Default Ok, lots to think about

Thanks for the feedback; there's some very useful stuff. I've already started incorporating some of it.

Scot:
I think your comment about the font was spot on, and I'd like to use the one you attached. What's it called?

I agree with you about the physicality. Our show is very verbal, though; I think all our really physical stuff was in the montage. It's a problem for making the video, and I haven't quite worked our how to solve it.

I'm editing in Pinnacle Study DV 9. I don't know how it compares to iMovie.

Eric:
I'm not entirely clear on your feeling about fading music out mid-segment. Isn't that done all the time in movies, tv, etc? I dunno.

I understand your point about the Stebbins routine, but honestly, besides you, me, Steve (my partner), and a handful of other magicians, who's really gonna notice? I'll mention it to him, tho.

We're not promoting ourselves strictly to schools, but we do want to be considered for family-friendly venues. Right now, this is the only good, indoor, quality sound footage we have, but we're working on another shoot in the next couple months.

Martin and Peter: Thank you for your input and suggestions, also.

Everyone:
Sorry you don't like the name, but we've been performing 2 different shows under it for 5+ years, so we aren't gonna change it any time soon. While it is a sideshow term, the majority of audiences just see it as unusual, and (hopefully) are curious enough to come see who we are.

(It's better than our first name: Our first year doing our giant magic show was as LARGERdemain. Yeah, even the magicians didn't get it.)


So. . .anyone else?
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Old 01-25-05, 07:35 PM   #8
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No, you don't fade in and out of song spikes. You Start it on a beat, and end it on a beat. There's no fading, just straight cutting.

For the font, The best (since you have repeating letters) would be to hand write them on paper, then scan in b/w and add to your video. To get a scratchy look, use an old marker or a twisty tie dipped in ink.

This guy does awesome illustration:
Hydro's fonts

This guy has great downloads:
Misprinted Type

I used "Disgusting Behaviour"

For more action, Close ups and Low camera angles give the illusion of more action. Also, you can add physicality to your show. Do some inserts of other action. To see what I mean go to:
Jay Alexander's video
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Old 01-25-05, 09:02 PM   #9
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Default C'mon "Cheese and Crackers"?... That's Funny.

"I'm not entirely clear on your feeling about fading music out mid-segment. Isn't that done all the time in movies, tv, etc? I dunno."

Not in a promo vid tho. Next time you see a fade out in a movie, say the words "End; Act One" to yourself and you'll see what I mean. Promo movies are a short, to the point sales pitch. You'll never see a fade out in a commercial, and that's what your video is.

"We're not promoting ourselves strictly to schools, but we do want to be considered for family-friendly venues. Right now, this is the only good, indoor, quality sound footage we have, but we're working on another shoot in the next couple months."

That's what I was afraid of. Make that next shoot as soon as possible. I think the amount of children in that audience will turn off prospective clients, it makes it look like a kiddie show. All of your material is clean, you don't need to further sell the fact that you are family friendly.

"I understand your point about the Stebbins routine, but honestly, besides you, me, Steve (my partner), and a handful of other magicians, who's really gonna notice? I'll mention it to him, tho."

I only threw that in as a jab, but come on, how much effort does it take to jump around in the order?

P.S.

cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers cheese and crackers
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Old 01-26-05, 12:09 AM   #10
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Default Even more

I see what you mean, Eric, about the fades, and I would use strictly jump cuts, but they're only used to show change of location or focus--most of what I have to work with is "this is me doing this now" "this is me doing this a couple minutes later." Given the footage I have to work with and that I don't have the advantage of inserts or alternate angles, I thought that fades (quicker ones than you saw) were the only way to transition smoothly. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks, Scot, for the links and the ideas.
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Old 01-26-05, 02:23 AM   #11
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The idea is to draw it together, not divide it up.

watch the pancake video on my site And notice how the sound overlaps cuts even between premise and prop changes. Titles come up, but the video keeps rolling.

Everyone always asks for criticisms right away. I would say, watch some movie trailers. Watch some music videos, then go back and watch your video. The Pancake thing was the first video I made. I was learning the programs and it took me 5 months to get everything the way I wanted it. working on it here and there.

Hollywood people were telling me "The green screen isn't going to look like hollywood." "You aren't going to be able to make something like a comercial in your first try." "Don't worry if the cuts aren't all perfect." I fought that way of thinking.

I think besides the footage I had to work with, I made it commercial quality. And, if I do a promo video now, it will be twice as good in two weeks.
  • Shot w/ 4 cameras
  • shot green screen
  • photos of props
  • shot another title screen which was awesome, but had a misleading logo*edit - this title screen's for a tiny bit at the end
  • the green screen was poorly lit, so it took forever trying to get rid of the background
  • color corrected all
  • made titles
  • edited
  • found song
  • improved the titles
  • shortened
  • rerecorded all of my own voice
  • remixed audio
  • fixed the entrance and exit of accolade people
  • shortened it again

The video you see on the site isn't the full version. I cut it down and threw it together a little sloppier so that it downloads fast. I cut out some of the titling stuff because fast motion doesn't compress well.

My point to everyone is, shoot to make things as good as the big corporations do. You have the same technology and what you lack in experience, you can make up for in drive and time. you have time. I don't know any variety performers who actually work as much as someone with a real job.

Scot
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Old 01-26-05, 10:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
watch the pancake video on my site
Would love to, but got an error using IE 6 WinXP popups disabled when I cliced on the link from your home page.

Steve
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Old 01-26-05, 12:46 PM   #13
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Use dissolves--and cross fades for the audio.
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Old 01-26-05, 06:03 PM   #14
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popups disabled:
Go to your preferences and uncheck "Popup Blocker" or check "enable popups" or whatever. You're missing content on the web without popups.

Internet Explorer is one of the worst browsers also.

Go for Opera, Firefox or something to get a more full web experience.

// if you go to a lot of porn sites, you may want to block popups at those times //
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Old 01-26-05, 08:23 PM   #15
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Wink Umm. . .

. . .please qualify "a lot"
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Old 01-26-05, 10:40 PM   #16
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Lurk

Pop-ups by and large suck.
Safari, firefox, (I didnt know IE even had them)
have pop up blockers because people want them because pop ups suck.
Missed content is a price people are prepared to pay to evade suckiness.
Firefox gives you an option, "this site has a popup, do you wish to see it?" or that could be an addon, not sure.
My point is popups are responsible for lots of user havoc, people turn them off if given the chance.
You choose to build them into your site you loose those potentials who have popups turned off.
You delude yourself if you think thats their problem. Damn porn freaks.

stephon
alot = blistering
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Old 01-27-05, 09:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Go to your preferences and uncheck "Popup Blocker" or check "enable popups" or whatever. You're missing content on the web without popups.
Aw, come on, give me more credit than that.

Check the pride at the door dude, cause "error on page" doesn't show for disabled popups under normal circumstances. You did test the site under IE, yes?

Quote:
Internet Explorer is one of the worst browsers also.
That may be true, but what is true is that it is by far the most popular. FOL - gotta make it work for Bill, then you can worry about the others.

Even if the popup worked, because you've got the content embedded into a php generated scheme, when I tell the browser to allow popups from your site, the page refreshes, which means that wherever I am within your site, I get dropped back to the home page and have to work my way back down. Usable, but anoying.

I'm a big fan of the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Steve).

Anyway, I still want to see the pancake video...

Steve
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Old 01-27-05, 11:56 AM   #18
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Default IE

I am also using explorer. I do not have pop ups blocked and they open from other sites *ahem*

I concur with Steven that I am getting an error on page message on the bottom.

Even though you think I.E. is evil, did you check to make sure your site works properly on it because as steve said it is the most widely used...at least for now.
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Old 01-28-05, 12:13 AM   #19
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Default Hmmm

I have IE and a pop up blocker, but I didn't have any problem opening the video.
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Old 01-28-05, 10:29 AM   #20
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Lurk

Works on safari with pop ups blocked
Works on Firefox with same.
could be just that version of IE perhaps.
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