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Old 06-28-05, 08:02 AM   #1
The Renaissance Man
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Default Live 8

Have given thought to taking the train into Philadelphia with some juggling toys and a hat (despite all the best bands being elsewhere).

Am not usually a street-guy, and I'm not thinking of doing a full-blown show.

Just thought a couple bucks might be in the offing if I but stand 'round adding color with a seeded hat and cycling through my (admittedly limited) repertoire of tricks.

Izzis a no-no? It's a free event...thoughts.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old 06-28-05, 08:23 AM   #2
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I dont think Bono would approve.
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Old 06-28-05, 08:32 AM   #3
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Do you really need the bucks more than the people in Africa?

Maybe and, with the way I read your post I mean maybe, you may get something out of it if you did your show and gave your hat to the cause.

Gee, it's not like you are going to take it seriously, just some toys and a hat, hoping the crowd feel good enough to spread some of their benevolence to your deliberately B-grade show.

Get real, pls.
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Old 06-28-05, 11:31 AM   #4
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Question Not trying to flame--just curious

Peter, I'm not sure I completely understood your reply.

What do you mean by "get something out of it if" etc. What kind of "something"? Are you talking about good karma? Publicity?

Do any of us need the bucks more than the people in Africa?

I dunno, perhaps you give a portion of each hat to hunger relief, but it seems kind of superficial and hypocritical for a person to feel they can't perform 'cuz people are starving. They're not starving any less when you're accepting donations on the other side of the world.

It sounds like fair-weather ethics.
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Old 06-28-05, 12:27 PM   #5
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I sure wish I had headed over to Rome to work the crowds at the Pope's funeral.
(Actually I dont have a moral issue with this, it just strikes me as very funny!)
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Old 06-28-05, 02:12 PM   #6
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Lurk we are the world, we are the sweatshops.

It has to be pointed out also that all the performers, while working for free, demonstratively (ie stats from previous live aids) increase their recordings sales and boost their (often flagging) careers and additionally the record companies tend to make an even greater profit from those increased sales.
Is it still called "band aid"? or has it been changed to something a little more camouflaged?


Maybe if you/we stopped propping the system that exploits the third world so we can continue consuming must have bullshit fluff and letting the world bank cripple countries by helping them set up the factories to make said shit with borrowed money and extortionate interest rates then more could be done than give the middle class a feel good day out and some starving fucker a bag of something to prolong their eventual annihilation.
Nah you get to have your day out celebrating your generosity and your lifestyles that have helped make Africa what it is today.
The good news is the whole systems going to disintegrate in our lifetimes.
But probably not on your way back from the concert.
Moral relativism's a difficult topic to get rightious about. I'm just upping peters game.
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Old 06-28-05, 02:34 PM   #7
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You know Martin, once in a while I click the link next to the "This person is on your ignore list..." just to see if anything has changed, and then have to be disappointed to find out that it hasn't.

If doing some street performing at Live 8 can bring joy to some people's lives, then do it and feel ethically free to respectfully pass the hat. If it helps the dynamic of the setting, tell the audience that if they don't wish to tip you, they should give to the festival cause instead.

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Old 06-28-05, 04:52 PM   #8
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Lurk Dad...Is that you?

You know Steven I find your condecending paternal tone slightly irritating. I find your whistful hope that somehow I'll change (as you brace yourself and click on the ignore pop-up) humorous so thanks for that insight.
Isn't the world complicated? And aren't people complex?
So much easier simply playing with objects isn't it?
Just reading your superior dirge bought to mind a phrase from long ago.
"Love conquers all like a landmine cures athletes foot."
And I smiled.
So thanks for making the world a better place.
I have nothing against Chris busking the gig.
I didn't encourage or discourage him.
I fear you may have comprehension difficulties.

The whole things a sham where old white has beens get to help the black folk and themselves.
But the audience will undoubtedly be smiling so alls well in your cosmos .
A little research would show you theres quite a resistance from African aid organisations towards these concerts both in the composition of the selected artists and the moneys distribution.
But thats not smiley is it steven so you probably ignore it.
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Old 06-28-05, 04:56 PM   #9
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Default Fun and Profit...

Mostly it was (and remains) a question about getting in dutch with the constabulary, or the event organizers.

---"Do you really need the bucks more than the people in Africa?"---

Can't say I need the dough more than the ostensible benificiaries of the show; but I'm going to figure that if someone has brought discretionary income they plan to donate to the cause whilst at the free show, they'll hardly be tricked out of it by li'l ol' me. I'll also go so far as to assume that if they're the sort to give me a couple bucks, they're likely to pony up for something really important in addition.

---"Gee, it's not like you are going to take it seriously, just some toys and a hat, hoping the crowd feel good enough to spread some of their benevolence to your deliberately B-grade show.
Get real, pls."---

Am tryin' to get real, man! Trying to be really inspired by Motionfest and the threads here at p.net to take my show out to the streets. Sadly, my A-show's all verbal an' shit at the moment.

Thought I'd start small & unassuming at an event sure to have a butt-load of people; bring a little splash of color and activity along and just see if a pressureless passive hat would inspire any largesse in the crowd.

Frankly, I don't see the harm in that, nor exactly how I am robbing the African folks of money.
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Old 06-28-05, 05:04 PM   #10
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Lurk we have a winner!

Man makes own mind up, risks everything for laughs.
more at 11.
Good luck.
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Old 06-28-05, 05:21 PM   #11
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Personaly, I dont have a spirtual bone in my body and could care less about the "cause" behind the concert, but I think Martin just tapped into my next line of thought which is:
If you are wanting to "get real and take your show to the streets", this may, again MAY, not be the place to do it.
Many of the people attending may not share my apathy and could have feelings about the "cause" resulting in a load of shit for you to deal with in a show. And if your not used to dealing with "street" energy and cold pitches, it could be more trouble then you want.
That said if you want to do it, do it. And good luck to ya says I.

(Of course I will be looking forward to a very good posting afterwards, and I can't say I will be looking for a happy ending)
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Old 06-28-05, 06:15 PM   #12
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I think you ought to juggle in character! The idea of a time traveling Renaissance Man at a African benifit concert strikes me as hilarious.

The single biggest threat to Africa besides the stinking bad luck of lousy geography is
the corruption at all levels. The only real law is everyone one for them self. No law, no private property rights, no investment.

I contend that at least half the money raised will end up in Swiss bank accounts.

Top down funding encourages corruption. Microloans and efforts by the likes of the Heifer project accomplish a lot more.

But what do I know, I'm just a clown! And I still say you ought to perform in character. Would be interesting to see how many would get it.

Cheers!
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Old 06-28-05, 06:38 PM   #13
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Default The high and the mighty

Martin wrote:
Just reading your superior dirge...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Martin wrote:
The whole things a sham where old white has beens get to help the black folk and themselves. A little research would show you theres quite a resistance from African aid organisations towards these concerts both in the composition of the selected artists and the moneys distribution.

That may be, but if one took that attitude, then those of us who do live in the super-power countries should just say to hell with them. They don't want help anyway. I believe that this is a highly unproductive attitude.

I don't know the details of the festival, whether or not the money will be pocketed, laundered or actually benefit anyone who really needs it. I would also contend that you, or any street performer on this forum does either.

I think that Stretch has the best point so far: "But what do I know, I'm just a clown!" I would no sooner be influenced by the opinions of a street mime on world politics than I would wish to vote for a movie actor to be governor of California.

Martin wrote:
But thats not smiley is it steven so you probably ignore it.

Very unfair and very untrue. Remarks like that are made simply to be mean. You know me no more than you know a few dots of light on a computer screen.

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Old 06-29-05, 06:56 PM   #14
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I'm not going to spend energy arguing with you.
You want me to shut up and stop being opinionated.
You even use the word contend when implying your ignorance of things must by reason of our occupations, be ours as well.
All beside the point really.
If you took any interest in the world around you you might seek to become informed rather than presuming it wasn't possible.
Heres a start, its not all too heavy. Its about half of what i look at daily.
http://scoop.agonist.org/search/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
http://billmon.org/
http://jameswolcott.com/
http://jonaquino.textdriven.com/desc...pulicious.html
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/
http://slashdot.org/search.pl
http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/sterling/
http://www.boingboing.net/
http://www.lifehacker.com/


--------------------

But really, quite immaterial in this context.
Let me explain.
I like Chris, I work with him every year, he's as cheerfully funny as I strive to be cheerless.
He put up a question.
Peter V, who likes leaping from underneath his rock snarling from time to time, sent a biting reply taking a morally absolute stance and inferring that anyone who sullied a charitable exercise with their own commercial agenda was ethically and/or morally questionable.
I thought 'steady on' and so sent a barrage from the opposite direction, moral relativism, attacking and highlighting the multidimensional pros and cons of the concert. (OK mostly cons)
I didn't think it really that subtle a way of defending Chris by pointing out that the entire event was dubious morally and effectively.
So it went over your head and you got all snarky. I'm not responsible for your simplistic view.
And your right I am unfair, lifes unfair.
Also lifes complicated, George B started out as a male cheerleader, now he's the most powerful politician on the planet (He mustn't have got your memo)
Before him Ronnie R was an actor who starred with chimps. Jesus was a carpenter and Hitler ran a bikini waxing salon.
Please for your own sake put me back on the ignore list.
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Old 06-29-05, 07:44 PM   #15
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Martin,

I apoligize for being ignorant to your cause and for coming off as being snarky. It is obviously a subject that you feel strongly about. I thought that my initial comment I was simply stating that I thought it would be OK to busk at a benefit event.

I really don't understand what issues you have with me and why my presence, writing style, level of cultural/political awareness seems to be such as issue, but have sent you a private message in an attempt to not obscure the primary content of the thread for the benefit of the rest of the P.net readership.

Steven Ragatz

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Old 06-29-05, 07:52 PM   #16
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Default Sources - a clown reading list

The July, '05 Reason Magazine has a nice review of the book "The Shackled Continent: Power, Corruption, and African Lives, by Robert Guest, Washington, D.C.,
Smithsonian Books, 288 pgs, $27.50

Guest is the African editor for the Economist.

Since I've been reading on the topic for decades, I didn't see anything startling in the overview, but the specifics he sites are nice. Particularily the Zambia example. An average percapita income in 1964 of $540 plunging to $300 by year 2000, (inflation adjusted) despite $6 billion in foreign aid from 1980 to 1996.

Bad government, no rule of law, no property rights = no investment, no savings, no progress. "Africans are poor because they are poorly governed".

See Zimbabawe for another nasty example.


Here are some articles from past issues

http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl

The June 20 issue of Forbes also has a nice article "Trickle Up Economics" relating to how "low - tech, low -cost designs are helping the poorest farmers on earth grow their way out of poverty." Sites the Denver, CO organisation International Developement Enterprises, and the success of their bottom up aproach to helping people help themselves in the third world.

Forbes (and others) have covered the micro-lending success phenom of the last few years.

Heifer International may be one of the best known boot strapping charities out there, but they are certainly not alone.

http://www.heifer.org/

Having said all that, Chris, ANY opportunity to perform is an
opportunity to learn. Go for it and have fun!

It's ok if you don't want to perform as your
Renaissance character, just don't go as a UN aid worker ! ;>)

Smack! Bad Clown! Bad Clown!
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Old 06-29-05, 09:42 PM   #17
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Lurk re offline

Steven, you are one of the most consistantly helpful people on these boards. (I've said that before) Whereas I am merely just consistant and so I've been told by a few ,irritating, overly aggressive, mean and nasty.
And my clowns even worse.
I'm going to take great pains to be excessively polite to you in future. As a gesture of respect.
It could be an interesting exercise, especially if you choose to abuse it.
(it would be a bizzarre role switching exercise)
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Old 06-30-05, 02:45 AM   #18
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I'm sorry I haven't replied earlier, Martin and Ren Man but I was busy.

If you need the money to pay rent, eat etc., Ren Man then of course you go to work. The moral and ethical issues involved are a hot potato that I was throwing back to you.

I was trying to comment on the fact that you seemed to be preparing to give it a half-cooked, laissez-faire attempt.

The rewards I was referring to were those that come through more applied effort.

I suppose it's how you read it. I will get back under my rock.
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Old 06-30-05, 07:39 AM   #19
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I wonder if the concert will be as long as this thread?
I doubt it will be as entertaining.
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Old 07-01-05, 01:00 AM   #20
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Default Live 8 issue

So Martin, what's your take on this?:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/68c254e8-e8...00e2511c8.html

It seems to be pretty middle of the road.

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